In the midst of the 42 plus comments and counting in Mick’s piece this afternoon, there is a very telling exchange.
And it goes back to the last time a section of supporters sensed a dead man walking manager-wise, and that was Nigel Worthington’s final game in charge of the Canaries – the home game against Burnley.
The parallel with the impending visit of West Ham United and Chris Hughton’s struggle to convince a growing minority that he is the man to lead Norwich into mid-table obscurity along with all the other Norwich’s of the English Premier League wasn’t lost on some.
[And, btw, there’s no shame in ‘mid-table obscurity’ – it is anywhere from eighth to 17th in the deeply-flawed make up of said Premier League.]
Nor have the memories of the sheer poison that abounded that dank day faded.
SteveJ says:
November 3, 2013 at 5:57 pm
Was planning to take my young son to the West Ham game, but I fear the atmosphere in the Barclay will be so poisonous that it would scar his young footballing life. I remember the afternoon of the Burnley game none too fondly.
Which prompted a response later:
‘City fan says:
November 3, 2013 at 8:20 pm
Steve J (32): Good decision. That last game for Worthy was a shameful day and those laughing at his demise in that day got what they deserved – relegation…
…The worry is – and in 25 years of going to Carrow Rd I only really recall the trend starting in the Worthy era – people seem to enjoy the hatred. It’s just a game. That’s all.’
What is interesting – and isn’t about to add to anyone’s sense of good cheer tonight – is the timing that CityFan saw.
That it started in the Worthy era…
Because, for me, I think the other huge factor in play here – and not just here but at every other club – is the way that the web in all it’s various guises has empowered dissenting voices to gather strength and purpose; to find common cause with fellow like minds and set an agenda before anyone ever takes their seat in the Barclay Lower.
Since about the time of Burnley (h). Or a little before. The Wrath of the Barclay (sic) had been gathering voice for a couple of years, in fairness.
And why not? Be rich, indeed, for me to start decrying the fact that such platforms give people a chance to express their opinions.
And, of course, such ardent platforms aren’t peculiar to a football club – though the passion it arouses lends itself to it.
You follow any comment thread on a national newspaper and watch the vitriol flow. About the Palestinian issue; about gay marriage. And those, in theory, are the moderated ones.
There are a host of topics around which venom is unleashed and in the midst of which the more vocal tend to try and outdo each other when it comes to the vehemence of their stance.
But here’s the problem when it comes to a football club.
Protesters and dissenters – The Ranters if anyone wants to go back to the time of another civil war – have the ability to organise themselves like never before. In the midst of the ‘Worthy Out!’ wars some lad set up a website of the same name; now there is a hash tag that doubles as a rallying point for those demanding change.
But – crucially – they all know that they will convene together every other Saturday when their strength of web feeling can be swiftly replicated on a terrace; in a stand.
I used to sub the PinkUn letters page when it was on a print page. We only had two pages; say 14 letters all told by the time you threw a big pic of Robert Chase in.
You were unlikely to feel too much strength in those kind of numbers when you headed over Carrow Bridge the following weekend.
Now folk are emboldened; they have a far greater sense of an upswell in similar feeling. Because we all now have an online voice – and a strident online persona to match.
Judgement has been made on the message boards during the course of the week; it just gets delivered on the Saturday.
None of which will come as succour to the besieged Hughton. Nor make the atmosphere on the Lower Barclay any less challenging.
And it is, alas, a process that will repeat itself; vicious circles that will rear their ugly heads again and again at clubs across the land.
As for an answer, short of switching off the web 48 hours before a game I have none.
The people have been given a voice and, all too often, the people won’t be denied.
Welcome to the Coliseum, Chris…
Very good post Rick.It must have gone up when I was posting this on Mick’s thread. Can I put most of it on here too?
I remember Worthy’s last game too, a terrible atmosphere and the consequences were bad for the club. Some people have short memories. At least the booing of the Hooper substitution (Cardiff game) and ‘you don’t know what you’re doing’ from the snakepit was rounded upon by other fans, if not as vocally (this discussion would be less heated if Elmander had scored and we had won and then we’d only be tonked 3-0 at Man City)
The trend of abuse, and vitriol as a reaction to things not going our way is related to the growth of social media – twitter and the like and reflects other changes in society. And, I suppose the ‘democracy’ of the internet where people can say what they want behind a cloak of anonymity.
It’s worth reading Jonathan Wilson’s editor’s note in issue 9 of The Blizzard, where he deals with abuse in football from a journalist’s point of view. He concludes his piece: ‘Football, the one global sport, something that should be a great unifier, has come to be dominated by the angry and self-entitled.’
It’s good to see, in the reaction to Mick’s article, that worthwhile criticism has not been lost amid idiocy and abuse at least on that thread.
I think we need to get behind the manager and the team, not to vocally criticise during matches. Of course it is easier to get behind the team when the play is thrilling. The only reason for a fan to boo the team is when players are clearly not giving their best and against Cardiff they were. Booing the team and the manager will just make the situation and atmosphere worse, and I fear that is the intention of some of the outers. I assume that their logic is that things can only get better without Hughton and so anything is justified in making that happen. His main problem seems to be that he isn’t Paul Lambert. But, their assumption that things will only get better without Hughton is probably misguided and their method of getting rid of him reprehensible. Under Houghton’s guidance the club earned a lot of money last season (£130 million?). If the poor run continues late December would be the time to think about changing the manager, not now. Hopefully the next 3 games will bring us 6 points and ease the pressure. A decent run would probably put us in the mid table mediocrity zone. To go higher than that, given the EPL, would be amazing.
For once I’m glad I can’t afford the ticket price… I DID take my eldest boy to his first game for Worthy’s last outing against Burnley. It was the one and only time I left a match early – I couldn’t bear to have him hear all that hatred as the Doc was red-carded for a typical rugby tackle at 0-3 down. He recovered his love for the game, although I haven’t been able to take him since we were promoted back to the Premier League (ticket prices forbid it on my budget), but I’d not submit a young child to that poisonous atmosphere again.
A great article as ever but I think you have, unusually for you, missed the point here, which is surely that after the worst defeat for 75 years (we cannot score, we cannot defend – 11 conceded in 2 trips in 5 days in manchester- and we cannot even pass the ball) enough is enough. CH has been in charge now for 48 league games, he has had more than enough time and shouldn’t even still be sweating on how to engineer one of his favourite scrappy 1-0 home wins on Saturday. 2 goals in 5 away games this season and only 4 at home is unacceptable; I wouldnt even blame RVW for putting in a transfer request in January hoping a team will come in and actually pass the ball to him – his world cup hopes are hardly being helped at the moment. Nice guy CH may be, but we are only going to be relegated if he stays, the league table doesn’t lie !
All fair enough. But the Chase Out days and even the last days of Ken Brown were pretty rough and ready if memory serves.
Like the Coliseum analogy (unfortunately).
The Twitterati are doing their worst to engineer a change but who honestly do they expect to come in and lead us to the promised land? Pulis? McLeish? Someone we’ve never heard of as Southampton did. People forget that Adkins had turned their form round before he was shown the exit and Pochettino has to have been the biggest wildcard ever played. His record at Espanyol was distinctly average (more losses than wins) – I can’t see his luck holding out.
The other team that the outers are always highlighting in terms of us ‘being overtaken by’ is Swansea. Laudrup of course has massive pedigree but he’s being found out in the PL this season (only 2 points better than us).
Moral: Let’s not throw the toys out yet. Twitter is the tool of Beelzebub..or Joey Barton at least – QED.
Let’s roar on the boys on Saturday until our throats go sore (and no booing).
I think this analysis is a bit too simplistic. Sure, social media and message boards give fans a platform to vent their spleen, but vitriol within a football ground is hardly a recent phenomenon. The most sustained period of protest and disruption this club has ever known was in the ‘Chase Out!’ days – way before the advent of most of the online forums people use today. If there’s a bad atmosphere amongst the supporters, call me old fashioned but I think it might have something to do with us being in the bottom three and suffering our worst result for 75 years.
However, regardless of people’s views on the manager, I sincerely hope we can avoid conflict within our own ranks on Saturday. There’s nothing more dispiriting than seeing your own fans squaring up to each other – something we’ve seen before and during the digital age.
There are two ends to the rainbow. One in the past (Lambert) where everything was rosy (if you ignore 6-1 at MCFC, limp cup exits, etc) and one in the future where everything will be rosy and we’ll live happily ever after. (Until the next manager goes on a bad run, makes poor subs, is booed from the club).
Two ends to the rainbow. As in, neither exists. There’s a lot that needs putting right, but it was never perfect and never will be. That’s life. Boo!
Fans have always found a way to put their point across – the benefit of social media to the Club is that it becomes much more obvious, much earlier, where the groundswell of opinion is going, which allows it to take action proactively rather than reactively.
The Chase points are all well made, but there’s a slightly more recent example – when Chase departed and the new regime came in, season tickets didn’t begin to sell again because of the continuing presence of Meggy in the manager’s seat. There was no need for Twitter or Facebook protests, no demonstrations inside or outside the ground (albeit it was close season) – just a simple refusal to put money into the Club at a time when it really needed it.
Fan-power will always win out, and it will always come from a number of directions – something I’m sure the Directors are more than aware of.
Good post Rick, I for one would be gutted if the West Ham game brings a similar crowd reaction to the Worthington/Burnley game.
I really feel that the team deserve to be supported all the way, if you think of what the likes of Russell Martin, John Ruddy and others have done for this club overs the last few seasons.
When it comes to RVW, Fer, Redmond etc one thing that will drive them away from the club is not getting the crowds backing over this period.
I can remember more then once seeing the crowd calling for the managers head, post match outside the Main/City Stand, to my mind this is the opportunity to vent your spleen at the board/CH.
We like to think that our support is a class act,
I really hope we see some of that on Saturday.
On another point, the Burnley game made it clear that Worthington had “lost” the players, who put in one of the most chronic performances I have ever seen. Russ Martin has said repeatedly that the players are fully behind Chris Hughton, which chimes with Kevin Nolan’s comments that everyone at Newcastle liked him. Last season Mr X at Villa looked to be one his way out after so many terrible losses, but he turned it around so beat Spam and Palace and who knows?
True, fans have always had opinions, and there’s always been vocal opinion on a Saturday, but I think the information age has served to polarize and simplify those views. There’s less room for nuance, for grey areas, for explanation and clarification. Especially in 140 or less characters.
And the way the media works now, opinion is continually encouraged and demanded, regardless of qualification, education, experience, or agenda.
Like or don’t like. YES or NO. For or Against. Tick the box, click the button, enter our free prize draw.
People seem to have far more respect for their own opinion than ever before, to the detriment of debate, reasoned argument and progress. We love it, but we have to be wary of it at the same time.
I’ve always been of the opinion that, the harder it gets, the more I support the team, so I really cannot relate to a lot of what goes on at the moment. I posted a note saying ‘let’s get behind the team on Saturday’ on the club’s facebook page and got called a prat and told to shut up. Nice. I fail to see what part of what I said was offensive.
I’m sure that our board are fully capable of making a decision when it is necessary; a point that many people keep making – “In Nasty we trust” so I’m told, so let him do his job.
Until then, I will be cheering on the team on Saturday.