We are all on the same side. We care about the same club. We all want that club to succeed. We have far more in common than divides us.
It is worth remembering that as we shout at each other online or in person.
I plead guilty to getting angry when other Norwich fans express views which I think are damaging and flawed. But, I have never questioned the rights of others to hold different beliefs. Nor am I arrogant enough (not quite!) to believe my sentiments carry more weight because of my profession.
So, although there was a very heated debate behind the goal at the Etihad, it ended with my offering my hand to some outers. Like my wife and me, they were hurting. I understood and respected that. Of course they were entitled to their judgements.
That courtesy is not always extended to me. Some discount my views because I am friendly with the club’s majority shareholders, but it is Delia who always stands up for the fans’ right to criticise when I talk with her two or three times a season.
For the record – before we move on to matters in hand – I did not, ever, say it was wrong to sack Glenn Roeder. The piece in the Express and on this website which has become notorious was an account of what it was like to be on the inside as fans outside called for his head. It was a sobering night and I wrote an honest report because I think that is my job.
And I do use my contacts in journalism to defend the Yellow Army. When the Daily Mail’s Neil Moxley wrote about “usually sleepy Norfolk”, believe me I put him right.
Much more recently, Michael Calvin of the Independent on Sunday hinted strongly about a racist element in the antipathy towards Chris Hughton. I explained his suspicion was plain wrong.
But I think the outers are wrong too. My assessment differs greatly.
And my fear is that we might be about to destroy something precious. Because sacking is easy. It is what happens next that is difficult and often destructive.
When we got Worthy out, we got Grant in. When we got Roeder out, we got Gunny and League one.
Yes, when Gunny went we got Paul Lambert and an unforgettable three-year romp up the table, but in our own history that was the exception and, in football generally, a sacking often provokes a spiral of decline.
Is there anyone left who thinks Sunderland did the right thing sacking Martin O’Neil when they were outside the bottom three and bringing in Paolo Di Canio?
Wolves sacked Mick McCarthy but picked up four points in 13 winless games under his assistant Terry Connor and were relegated. Two more expensive, mistaken appointments followed. So did League one.
Last season, Reading gave Brian McDermott his P45. Nigel Adkins, achieved only two points from his first five matches. They went down.
It is similar at the other end of the table. Chelsea were fifth when AVB got the chop in 2012. They ended the season in sixth under Roberto Di Matteo.
Contrast that with Villa. When Sunderland sacked O’Neill, Villa were below them in 17th place. But they stuck with Lambert and stayed up – although they finished below us despite much bigger resources.
The most successful manager of all time, Sir Alex Ferguson, was loathed by fans and very nearly kicked out – before turning things around just a tad. A year ago Arsenal fans were telling Arsene Wenger he didn’t know what he was doing. Now they top the table.
In fact, there has been academic research on the effect of sacking a manager and it shows that it seldom achieves a significant improvement. Often, it tips a team onto a downward slide.
Of course there are occasions when it is right to sack someone or, as with Ian Holloway at Palace, the man himself walks the plank.
And Chris Hughton knows he has to get points on the board quickly. But unless Pep Guardiola has a secret hankering to live in Norfolk, who would do better? The notion that anybody could – or that nobody could do any worse – is treacherously perilous.
The outers point to the painful second half to last season, the disappointing start to this and selectively forget the rest. The wins against West Brom (“on the beach”) and Manchester City (“temporary chaos”) are disregarded.
But it is as easy to argue special reasons for defeats. This season’s crushing disappointment at Hull, for instance. The home team got a penalty and a man sent off, so their tactics were decided for them: cling on to what they’d got. Our side, full of newbies finding their feet, would have fared better against a team who needed to take risks.
There have only been two stinkers this season: at Spurs and at Man City. In an attempt to be fair, I’ll throw in the Capital One defeat at Man U, although that was pretty much what I expected from our second string against theirs.
On the other side of the balance, I’d put beating Southampton (whose subsequent results show the significance of the achievement). I’d add the win at Stoke, plus good team performances against Chelsea, Arsenal and Cardiff.
And I insist on including the first half of last season in the appraisal. The only thing that matters in any season, surely, is the overall tally. We beat Arsenal, Spurs and Manchester United during a run which was only bettered by Barcelona. How can that be forgotten so glibly?
If we were to award points for cup games, then CH’s record at Norwich would be 70 points from 57 games. If we continue at that rate, we’ll get 46 points this season.
If we ignore the cup matches, then CH’s record is 52 points from 48 Premier League games. That rate would give us 41 this season.
But we’ve played Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester City so any sane judge would conclude that we will improve the rate with which we collect points.
And we have to be realistic about what happens when we play teams like those in Manchester. United’s turnover last season was £300m more than ours. What we spent on our most expensive signing is less than City give Yaya Toure in wages every season. It is not a fair fight.
That doesn’t mean we should cave in like we did at the Etihad this time, but those City fans downhearted about heavy defeats in Manchester are in for a lifetime of disappointment. And if we sack someone every time we get hammered by the mega-rich clubs, we’ll have a new manager ever season.
Chris is not Paul Lambert. But Lambert was always going to leave us – and we were always going to face second season syndrome and the loss of the impetus promotion gave us.
It is worth recalling, by the way, that under Saint Paul, Norwich began their Premier League life with four winless matches. That season brought a pitiful no-show at Sunderland and two defeats (with an 11-2 aggregate) by Man City.
Defeats happen. They will always be uncomfortably frequent for Norwich in the world’s richest league. The amount we splurged on our record summer spree is loose change to the elite.
And managers will always do things we, the paying punters, disagree with and also always make what they admit were mistakes.
So, yep, I wanted a different shape rather than just a change of personnel at nil-nil with 20 minutes left at home to Cardiff. And I’d like to see a variation on the reliance on getting the ball wide and crossing.
But I promise you that, as I have discovered by my close exposure to other clubs and their supporters, these are very similar to comments made by fans of every club who haven’t been in the Champions League recently – and by some followers of clubs who have!
So why do I think we are in a crisis? Because the mood among some fans is so fetid.
I state again that everyone is allowed an opinion. But that means I am entitled to say that singing “Bring on the Murphy” while Snoddy’s semi-conscious body was being eased onto a spine-board was vile. Someone explained: “They didn’t think.” Quite.
And the two guys who booed at 2-0 down at the Etihad, well your attitude is noxious. That’s why so many of us turned on you and helped you decide to leave at half-time.
I can’t understand or abide booing the team. That doesn’t make me a better fan or give me any special rights. But, for what it’s worth, I think that just as it is easy to cheer when the team is winning, it is more important to do so when they are not.
We all want the same thing. We are all on the same side. Against West Ham, my view is that the Yellow Army needs to demonstrate which side that is.
First of all don’t you dare critise Norwich fans for turning on their team ias you clearly say people are entitled to thier opinion but i guarantee that 80% of those fans that travels to Manchester twice in a week to see such a pathetic excuse of a display have had enough of the current managers regime but stayed even when the team was 7-0 down!
Also your other points don’t paint a compleat picture either, ook at the other clubs that sack thier managers and have success not just the ones that don’t do great, Southampton sack a manager who was doing well but replace him with some one even better, Newcastle sacked Hughton and they end up with European football.
It’s always a gamble when you change your manager as a football club but their is more of a risk leaving Hughton in charge than if we get rid if him now.
Yes we may not have expected to gain anything from the City game but you at least expect a team to fight no matter who they go up against our Norwich side has lost that fight, they have lost all belive in the system and tactics the current manager deploys. And those players have been backed by one of the clubs most successful players and captins in recent times who was forced to leave by that system.
1) Agreed, City have played some top teams but they have also lost to 10-man Hull away and drawn with Cardiff at home.
2) Our last few games will also be against top sides so middle team time is short to turn things around.
3) Those of us wishing to see the back of Hughton has to do with the way he sets up his team and perceived lack of nous and enterprise in both game play and substitutions.
4) The 7-0 drubbing by Man. City has just emphasised the above and accelerated the desire to see Hughton leave.
5) It is the manner of our defeats and the sickening sight of a good squad down and deteriorating before our eyes.
6) Better to be shot of Hughton now and be managerless until a suitable replacement is found – a rudderless ship is better than one with its rudder jammed in the wrong direction.
7) I think one season + 10 games sufficient for Hughton to show what he can do, although I thought it preferable if he’d left end of last season.
8) It is ‘Like my wife and I’ – not ‘me’.
It does concern me that we could find ourselves going into the next three winnable games rudderless. That’s not a reason to do nothing, but the alternative is a horrendously venomous afternoon at Carrow Road with a significant portion of the crowd baying for the managers head. We can do without a repeat of Worthy’s final game public execution thank you very much. It’s looking like a no win situation.
Great piece, could not agree more. I was there yesterday (home and away ST holder) and yesterday was hard to take, especially having clocked up two trips to Manchester this week. However I am more angry at the players no-show, and Hughton is not to blame for this.
I am pretty sick of this agenda some fans seem to have about Hughton. Some seem to have disliked him from day one. Those who post on Twitter and message boards pointing out that he is a decent manager (ask any Newcastle or Birmingham fan) just seem to get abuse. And as you say sacking a manager rarely helps.
Whats CH’s issue with playing right footed wingers on the right, and left footed on the left. We have strikers who will feed off wingers that get to the line, and full the ball across the 6 yard box etc. As apposed to cutting back and floating the ball deep towards the keeper.
If you look at some of the goals we have scored this season, the wolfs against everton (came from a shot/cross by Whittaker right footer from the right). Hoopers against watford, came from redmond a right footer crossing from the right, and the goal against chelsea again came from a player crossing with his strong foot from the correct side. Pretty sure it was olson from the left.
In comparison we have seen the goal from Redmond as an example of when cutting in has worked.
I actually think the wingers should have license to swap sides quite regularly and test themselves against different defenders.
My biggest issue with CH is he doesnt seem to pick players based on form, but he often just sticks with players that he bought. For example turner and snoddy. Despite bad performances.
“a rudderless ship is better than one with its rudder jammed in the wrong direction.”
The best way to explain norwich’s situations, yes he’s brought in quality but he doesn’t know how to use it
“a rudderless ship is better than one with its rudder jammed in the wrong direction.”
The quote above is the best way to explain norwich’s situations, yes Hughton’s brought in quality but he doesn’t know how to use it!
Convenient to miss out Saints and their improvement under a new manager. Similar size team and recent history. A year and ten games under Hughton is more than enough. Get rid now.
Hughton has won just 12 out of 48 Premier League games, drawing 16 and losing 20. But that doesn’t really tell the whole story as in the last 31 games he has won only 6. Now you tell me, what other top flight manager would still be in a job today with a record like that? Notwithstanding all of this, during his tenure we have had to suffer the ignominy of being the first Premier League club to lose to a non-league team in The FA Cup, at home to boot and yesterday his team loses 7-0 to Manchester City our worst result since 1938.
I fear that once West Ham score their first goal next weekend the atmosphere will start to turn rather nasty and poisonous and should City end up losing said game, Carrow Road will not be a pleasant place to be. Remember, Brian Gunn was, still is, a City legend but on that fateful day against Colchester he was abused by those two muppets who threw their season tickets at him. Worthington also left under a dark cloud because the board failed to act quickly enough and as much as I want Hughton to go, I would not wish any vitriol or abuse on him because he is a nice genuine fella but simply not right for our club right now in my opinion. Worthington’s last game against the claret and blue of Burnley was shown ‘live’ on television, the game against the claret and blue of West Ham is scheduled for live transmission on Sky next Saturday evening, could this possibly be lightening striking twice?
I can’t believe for one minute that McNally does not have a hit list when it eventually does come down to replacing the manager. We have some good people at the club and perhaps elevating Neil Adams and Ricky Martin to caretakers while the new permanent boss is put in place might not be such a bad idea.
OTBC CTID
Southampton were struggling, got rid of their manager and survived and look where they are now. You always gamble when taking any manager on or getting rid for that matter, and we certainly could do worse than Hughton. Problem as I see it is that the players don’t seem to want to play for him the way other players play for their managers. There just seems to be a lack of faith from the players and that is reflected in performances. I don’t doubt Hughton can manage but the players have to believe that too for it to work out. If the players start to believe in the management then we will start to play better and pick up points but it just strikes me that something isn’t right in the camp at the moment.
Bit of a one sided article…all your examples back your stance and you miss of all cases where a change has yielded an improvement. Not sure that’s a very honest write up, is it now Michael.
Lots of pro hughton journalists because he is a nice chap and genuinely has time for them. He works them. Most managers despise the media. Local or national.
Give Rickee and Neyul a chance burrr! Seriously? What is wrong with some of you? That really is a terry McDermott appointment. Why not give the chuckle brothers and panthro from thundercats an interview as well! Yeah? Great!
Also, the mood has been created by the football played. And that’s all hughton. We need rid immediately before issues off the pitch take us down.
We have just gone ultra defensive 10 men behind the ball and lost SEVEN NIL.
If that doesn’t tell you all you need to know about our managers tactical ideas what will.
Mick, I have to say I disagree with your assessment, though respect your eloquent defense of Chris. Maybe we have been spoiled over the last few amazing seasons but, I can just about cope with dull but effective displays. I, and most supporters, will not accept the dull and ineffective fare being delivered by the management team.
For Steve – good job correcting Mick’s grammar and being wrong. If you remove the second subject from the sentence .i.e ‘my wife and’ you are left with ‘Like me, they were hurting’. In your ‘corrected’ version the sentence would read ‘Like I they were hurting’.
You’re welcome.
I would suggest you look back at the reasons why Newcastle sacked him. He has no idea on winning tactics and no idea as to changing players and tactics during games. Oh and Newcastle said they could not see him improving them, how true they were as we are seeing now.
Get rid and I was one of those who wanted him, how things change.
Bring in Solskaer and Phelan
Losing yesterday in such a hopeless, craven way was either because the players didn’t know what they were meant to do, didn’t want to follow these instructions, were overwhelmed by expectation or the fear of failure or they didn’t care to try. Whatever one it was, it produced another match of disappointment and misery for fans, who have have been patient for too long now, living off tiny scraps of joy or coming up with stats to make us feel better about where we are and how we play, “played the top 7, spent same as Toure’s wages etc.” Watching Norwich has been boring, frustrating and demoralising for too long now, and, even during our 10 match unbeaten run, most of the time only the fact we won was actually interesting or compelling, not how we played. I don’t care what a great guy he is, how hard working Calderwood and Trollope are, I don’t care who we get in, or if we fall like a stone or rise like an eagle I just want to be excited and intrigued again, not clubbed to death with indecision, fear, ineptitude and dullness.
More than Can City and Spurs games as stinkers this season. What about Hull and Man Utd away? Also forgot RdM won the Champions League which will forever be the biggest moment in Chelsea’s history.
Mick
Your loyalty to Hughton is commendable, but the question remains; is he the best person to take the club forward? Too often, we play like rabbits stuck in a car’s headlights. We know that Man Utd and Man City have a lot more quality than us, but where was the fight and self belief? I can accept losing, but the players are suffering from a massive inferiority complex, and the manager has to take some responsibility for that.
I admit I was frustrated by Hughton’s approach for much of last season, but I was prepared to give him a chance to show what he can do with some new players. Well as we can all see it is not going too well. Hooper looks way out of his depth and Bassong’s mistakes are multiplying each game. Elmander’s best days are a long way behind him, and I shudder to think how bad things will have to get before Becchio is allowed on the pitch. Despite some pretty passing football at times, we have two wins out of ten games, and will be in a battle against relegation for the rest of the season.
At best, Hughton has until the end of the month to get a couple of wins, or I am afraid one of the nicest people in football will be looking for another job.
Agree with every word of that, getting so frustrated even thinking of not renewing st next year, cant take much more of this
To all these guys comparing us to Southampton, take a look at who they have played so far. Compare eggs with eggs. To be honest we looked better against Cardiff last week than they against Fulham. Its just getting that ball over the line. And short of sticking Hughton up front, he cant be blamed for that.
some valid points but some glaring omissions
1: you neglect how much hughton has spent to make this time his own, which it very much is his side after 15 months.
2: you neglect to mention sides such as Southampton who replaced a manager and have not looked back since.
3:we do not award points for cup games so that is a stupid arguement from the off.
4:the problem with all the examples of sacked managers is crazy appointments like di canio or clubs wasting so much time like Woles that Connor was all they could grab. We are in November and have time to change this club and appoint a man who can lead us forward.
5: also the notion that players should not be booed is rubbish. Fans have as much right to express their opinions as anyone else. If we all turn up week in week out paying the money and sitting on our hands no change will ever come. You dont sit all the way through a theatre show you hate because you are a loyal theatre fan, that notion is silly.
Completely agree with what you’ve said here. It’s like the ‘out’ brigade choose to ignore that he managed to bring us home to 11th last season with some remarkable wins along the way.
The only point that I would add is that the team clearly wants Chris Hughton there and only a fool would suggest that any of those players don’t want to still be in the Premier League next season, so that tells us that they clearly believe that Chris Hughton’s managerial abilities are up to the job of keeping them in the Premier League. I’d suggest that with that sort of backing, to remove him would be nothing short of foolish.
All aspects of a club are influenced by executive management skills, and a crucial element is “change management”. There can be no dispute that the DM/SB axis has performed sensationally well at change management, in contrast with predecessors ( Doncaster et al).
The current executive team have, over the last 4 to 5 years, presided over a miraculous transformation of the balance sheet; cash flow; the Academy and Youth development programme; and the professional, top tier football division.
10 out of 10 for change management skills in all those areas
The First Team, following the recruitment of the mercurial Lambert and the less extrovert Hughton has recovered from the abyss of League 1; got to the Premiership, and stayed there.
The executive management ( and the Board who empower them) are doing some pretty strong work, particularly when measured against the previous regime who delivered coaches such as Worthington, Grant, Roeder, Gunn etc., and some eminently forgettable recruits acquired for the first team during a deeply undistinguished 10 years or so.
I would place complete faith in DM/SB to manage the current situation and any change they deem necessary. We can be comfortable that succession planning in all key roles is key risk area that is under constant review probably in the coach’s case form the day of his appointment.
Those boys have their eye firmly on the ball, and I will trust their judgement based on their track record.
OH AND STEVE: a man who ( in comment 2 above) can write the phrase “Those of us wishing to see the back of Hughton has to do with the way he sets up…….” might be wise to hold off on cheap shots criticising the grammar of others
Our situation wasn’t helped by failing to score against 10-man Hull, having a penalty saved at home to Villa and not taking one of the many chances against Cardiff. Potentially nine points but achieved just one. I’m not confident things will improve when West Ham and Palace visit soon.
As Kevin points out, my grammar is correct, because the first person singular pronoun is the object and not the subject.
Southampton finished last season one place higher than where they were when they sacked Adkins — and, of course, we can’t know how they’d have done under Adkins.
It is a fact, however, that most sackings result do not have a positive result. Google will lead you to all the stats and research.
But, as I hope I made clear, I understand the view that change is necessary. I just don’t share it. OTBC
I love it when people say its not CH fault we can’t score.
Saw Norwich fans almost coming to blows with each other as they “debated” the Chris Hughton situation yesterday. Sadly, that passion wasn’t evident amongst the players on the pitch. Like the majority, I stayed to the end — hoping for a consolation goal, or any spark of fight. Not to be. I’d love to see CH turn it all round, but on balance I suspect a change is needed. I wouldn’t want to be the person who has to make this huge decision. I have huge fears about WHU game. Worry that my beloved Norwich will implode on live TV. Go and prove me wrong. I’d love three points. ON THE BALL CITY!
Mick, we can all cite examples of where changing a manager has or hasn’t worked to support our point of view. I don’t personally view the Grant/Roeder/Gunn era as proof switching managers doesn’t work – I see it as proof they were poor appointments and not up to the job. The fact none of them have managed anywhere since tends to support that. But, equally, neither do I think ditching Gunn for Lambert is proof that changing manager is the best course of action. Like any such decision, it was a judgement made at the time based on particular circumstances in a particular context. History will judge it very kindly, but nobody can predict for sure at the time whether such an approach will be successful or not. And that is why bandying around stats about the record of clubs when they change manager is pointless. The only debate that matters is whether Chris Hughton and his coaching team remaining in post is in the best interests of the club. Nobody knows the answer for certain, but lets reach our own conclusions based on more than selective examples of decisions taken by other clubs.
Clearly Mick. Hence the one sided article. But you can’t be too critical or wouldn’t be on the Christmas card lists I suppose.
For every example of a managerial change having a negative effect, I’ll find you one to illustrate the positive effect it can have.
Good article Mick.
I hate the public booing of the team, individuals in it, or changes made by the manager during a game from a small but vocal section of fans. Yes, we all pay to get in, and yes we all have the right to boo, but it makes for a toxic atmosphere and does not help the team at all.
Sappers point is a good one – we’d do well to remember how bad it got – Colchester and League One and we’d do well to remember that 2 wins in the next 3 games could take us to a respectable position in the table. It’s the points at the end of the season that count. As a bit of a pessimist (or realist?) I always looked at how far above the bottom three we were and for a lot of last season it wasn’t many.
As for the money spent, well not much in the top end premiership scheme of things.
We don’t seem to have had much luck this season. If the ref had got it right in the Chelsea game we would have had a penalty and Chelsea would have been playing with 10 men.
More defeats against bottom half teams and I’m sure McNally and co will be looking for someone new. I hope our luck turns and I wish the fans would stop getting on Hughton’s back during the game. It helps noone. The shame is that some of them seem determined to get rid of him and their negative chanting might push the board that way.
But then who? Based on Cardiff’s performance here I’d be doubtful about Malky (even though I admired him when he was here). Hughton’s problem seems to be that he isn’t Paul Lambert.
“We could do worse than Hughton”.
Really? I suppose we could be 19th or 20th, but that’s academic, relegation is relegation. Our form has been dire all through 2013. The only time we’ve succeeded under CH was at in 2012 and, let’s be honest, we had a good team in high morale at that point. We didn’t sack PL through being a poor manager, but because his team was so good that he got poached.
CH inherited a successful side and within six months turned them into (literally) a bunch of losers. He’s brought in proven goalscorers and sucked the goals out of them. I don’t know what CH has done successfully at the club. I really don’t. Compare our situation now to when he took over, are we playing better? more competitive? in any way succeeding?
The way I look at it, if I did my job so poorly, I’d be in line at the job office.
Sometimes sacking your manager is the wrong thing to do. If we were losing to scrappy, tightly contested games with a passionate team, that’s one thing. We’re not. We need to light a fire under the players and that’s done through change. I would rather try change and fail, than keep to same path we’ve been on and fail.
Was planning to take my young son to the West Ham game, but I fear the atmosphere in the Barclay will be so poisonous that it would scar his young footballing life. I remember the afternoon of the Burnley game none too fondly.
a comment to Adam: unsure how one can judge whether the team truly want him there or not and assert that they do.. the players cannot possibly make any public signal to the contrary, but you may be right; and you may be wrong
Good article Mick. Everyone of course will have an opinion, but most will be tainted by emotion after a 7-0 hammering an rightly so. In the cold light of day however, we should not really have expected anything better than a 3 or 4 goal defeat. As you rightly point out, we took two “heavies” against citeh under Lambert and no panic buttons were being pushed then because we all rightly considered we were premiership newboys and could not compete against such highly priced squads. So what is different now? Is it because we won there last season in what was a “nothing” match for them? Is it perhaps because we (Chris) has spent nearly 30 million and we should now be in a top 6 position? The reality is that we ARE still punching our way into an elite league, we have no divine right to be there and we will not remain there unless we retain unity amongst the fans towards the team. The team owe the fans a couple of performances now after Spurs and this 7-0 but I do not believe it is a time to look elsewhere for a manager. This squad has now been assembled by Hughton and we were all cock-a-hoop(er) with the signings in the summer, so we must trust he will find the best formation to use them, will become confident enough in them to change formation mid match and I think we can already see he is making changes much earlier now when needed. So lets trust Hughton and our board, lets not do a “Wolves” or make another chain of decisions that ends up with another “Roeder” in charge. Saturday’s are not aalways as happy as we want them at the moment, but I will trust in some stability being the road to success at this early juncture in a long season. 6 points from the next 3 games could see us comfortably mid table..what more could we ask for?
As much as I’m frustrated by City’s form I’m more saddened by the civil war that seems to have broken out amoungst City fans. Although I don’t want Hughton to go, mainly because I’ve yet to hear anyone propose a viable alternative who will actually deliver an improvement, I think it’s now envitable he won’t last the fortnight because of the numbers baying for blood. Too many for confusing passion for not thinking straight.
I can’t help but to agree with Mick, the probably of this getting worse before it gets better will increase if CH is sacked.
In reply to Dave: how come we came a position higher than under Lambert if Houghton turned them into a bunch of losers. Lambert was on a hiding to nothing for our second season (this time round) in the premiership. He wanted a bigger club and left. Yes he did brilliantly for us, but Hughton hasn’t done that badly.
PUSH THE BUTTON MCNALLY
@22 Adam Penny “Completely agree with what you’ve said here. It’s like the ‘out’ brigade choose to ignore that he managed to bring us home to 11th last season with some remarkable wins along the way.”
In the same way that the “in brigade” forget the free fall we were in for five months until two games before the end of the season and we were increasingly looking like being relegated. Our points advantage eroded away. We were in 16th. That the only reason we weren’t in the bottom half was due to beating a team with nothing to play for and a manager less Man City (and you can see how we rank against one with a manager now).
Additionally, two relegation slots were ‘secured’ early on last season, so there was only one relegation spot. This season is going to be much much tighter with all 3 spots in contention come May.
The longer Hughton has been in charge, the worse the results have been. Why the hell does he deserve more time?
Steve J (32): Good decision. That last game for Worthy was a shameful day and those laughing at his demise in that day got what they deserved – relegation.
The trouble with being an ‘outer’ is that at some point you will always be right. And you know it. So you bang the drum continuously until the worst happens and then you can say ‘I told you so’. Then a new manager comes in and the process starts all over again. It would have happened to Lambert eventually (he knew his time was up), just as it happened to Grant Holt last season. He wasn’t going to be incredible forever and sure enough there were people giving him atrocious abuse for not quite cutting it any more.
The worry is – and in 25 years of going to Carrow Rd I only really recall the trend starting in the Worthy era – people seem to enjoy the hatred. It’s just a game. That’s all.
Mick,
Mike Calvin’s suggestion of racist motivation against Hughton was disgraceful. I hope you put him right. There will always be idiots but why is it always a white, middle aged, middle class man who decides what is and isn’t racism in football? There are plenty of black players who can and do now speak up and should be listened to – and they are the ones who truly know what racism is.
Glad to see that – by and large – Mick has got his wish of a reasoned debate. Surely there’s evidence for each argument. The four league performances before Saturday were grounds for optimism; Saturday was miserable. I see no evidence that Hughton has lost the dressing room or his motivation. On the other hand, we’re not creating enough real chances, the defence looks a far cry from last Autumn, and there seems to be a shortage of leadership on the field. I hope the Board has more wisdom than I do to decide.
By the way, I was going to dispute Mick’s assertion that we’ve had a hard overall programme so far. But it’s true – we’ve played six of the top seven.
Agree with your article in general. It is certainly far too early to talk of sacking. There is too much knee jerk emotion in many fans I fear.
I would assume that the clear thinking Mr McNally will only contemplate replacing Chris Hughton just before the January transfer window if we are still struggling in the table. It will only come sooner if there are poor results from the ‘should win’ games and that there is a better replacement available.
Incidentally, I have yet to see a manager’s name quoted so far that would, in my opinion be better than who we have now.
Personally, I am expecting a turnaround in fortunes starting next Saturday. I would love to see Norwich mid-table by Christmas, Mr Hughton learning to adapt more in the mean time and then making the most of January’s window…
For the record I am in the Hughton must stay camp but I can come up with as many reasons to get shot of him as I can to keep him so going over them would only duplicate what everyone else has already said.
The margins of winning and losing are so small. Last year we picked up a few wins we did not deserve to and so far this year we have not picked up a few points that we should have done. The margins are that fine and will continue to be.
For me, I am watching a better standard of Norwich performances this year and that to me is progression so for that reason I want the progression to continue. I don’t want to rip up everything that has happened to invoke the improvement to be torn up. I don’t want to start again from scratch.
Chris Hughton helped earn the club £130m last year and with that he has earned the right to manage the team which he assembled for at least one season.
Norwich will never be relegated under him I am sure of that so I want a full season to see how far he can take us
Good post from City fan and also GPL. I remember Worthy’s last game too, a terrible atmosphere.
At least the booing of the Hooper substitution (Cardiff game) and ‘you don’t know what you’re doing’ from the snakepit was rounded upon by other fans, if not as vocally.
The trend (of abuse, and vitriol)as a reaction to things not going our way is related to the growth of social media – twitter and the like and reflects other changes in society. And, I suppose the ‘democracy’ of the internet where people can say what they want behind a cloak of anonymity.
It’s worth reading Jonathan Wilson’s editor’s note in issue 9 of The Blizzard, where he deals with abuse in football form a journalists point of view. He concludes his piece: ‘Football, the one global sport, something that should be a great unifier, has come to be dominated by the angry and self-entitled.’
It’s good to see, in the reaction to Mick’s article, that worthwhile criticism has not been lost amid idiocy and abuse at least on this thread.
We need to get behind the manager and the team, not to vocally criticise during matches. Of course it is easier to get behind the team when the play is thrilling. The only reason for a fan to boo the team is when players are clearly not giving their best and against Cardiff they were. Booing the team and the manager will just make the situation and atmosphere worse, and I fear that is the intention of some of the outers. I assume that their logic is it can only get better without Hughton and so anything is justified in making that happen. But, their assumption that things will only get better without him is misguided. As GPL said under Houghton’s guidance the club earned a lot of money last season. If the poor run continues late December would be the time to think about changing the manager, not now.
Excellently written article! highly informative
In a post on this website (I think friday) the author revealed that Norwich have no designated ‘attack coach’ – which I found absolutely shocking?
If true it does demonstrate the difference between the attacking capacity in this Norwich side, versus Hughtons free-scoring Newcastle and his Birmingham side. Both sides were of varying abilities too.
Before seeking a change of coach and acknowledging your astute point about the plight of similarly plighted teams over the past couple of seasons, is there a coach or manager (waiting for a job) that could come on board and add soemthing of an attack nous? there is def the capacity in the squad. Josh Murphy looked busy yesterday…. then with Fer, Pilko, Redmond etc and Howson who has had a very good season so far. The tools are present
The problem can be summed up with this picture http://www.lowestoftjournal.co.uk/polopoly_fs/fil_norwich_arsenal_004_1_1664594!image/2186528490.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_630/2186528490.jpg
No manager with any pride would allow himself to be photographed looking such a moron.
I like Hughton… I liked him when he played for Tottenham, I like that he wrote for the Socialist Worker or whatever in the 70’s on social issues, I like that it was ignored that he was black when the media were on the Paul Ince ‘black manager’ bandwagon when Ince was at Blackburn and he was managing Newcastle – I like what he did at Newcastle and Birmingham.
But the fact is that Norwich have made a number of embarrassing errors this season. The ‘feed the wolf’ poster was one – he’s a decent player but the Sporting side hardly set the Portugese league alight last season – the story about Hughton being racially abused is another – if he wasn’t black when he was doing well at Newcastle, why is it suddenly an issue when he is doing badly at Norwich?
And it should not be forgotten that – leaving aside the bent refereeing (such as the penalty at West Ham) – Norwich only stayed up last season because of a record breaking run (which included the greatest non goal ever when Bradley Johnson hit the bar at Swansea).
Something has to change – which does not mean Hughton has to go – but he does need get rid of the Mr Nice Guy/Rabbit in the headlights image, sort the team out.
It would be a start if he stopped being so direct and concentrated more on possession.
Some considered, some mindless contributions. I think I’m still (just about) in the ‘Hughton must stay’, mainly for all the reasons that Mick has outlined above.
However, there are a couple of elements that need to be taken into account. One is that Squad morale could now be very low, and this low morale would then be associated with the Management Team. Can Hughton turn this aspect around?
Another point is the forthcoming transfer window: if we’re going to change manager, it has to be done with sufficient time – and cash – for him to get some players that he may deem necessary into the club. This could be a deciding factor.
On the subject of booing: anyone is entitled to do that, but it is nevertheless a mindless gut reaction. If you are a ‘booer’ it may well make you feel better, but what it won’t do is get a better performance out of the team you purport to support.
Tough times, huh?
OTBC
This feed has been a darned sight more enjoyable than Saturday afternoon!
I’m an ‘inner’ (up to Christmas at least). We’ve taken a pummeling but let’s keep in mind that Lambert’s Villa went down 8-0 at Chelsea and Matinez’s Wigan 9-0 at Spurs. In both cases, the boo boys didn’t win, they kept their jobs and kept their teams in the PL.
“The rudderless ship” concept – surely should be ruddyless ship? Palace have been rudderless for the past 2 weeks – hasn’t helped them much.
I’m surprised a lot of the outers don’t move to Southampton – they are the only example of where a change has brought improvement and let’s be honest, that was a massive gamble on a total unknown by a director from the same country. They have played 1 of the top 7 so far – we have played 6.
We’ve taken some big hits by some big teams in the last month. No one has had a tougher fixture list in the past 4-5 weeks. For the sake of the club, everyone at the Hammers game has to be positive otherwise meltdown will occur. Hughton and the boys have a lot of work to do but need ‘support’ from the ‘supporters’.
A good article as always, however, and you know my feelings very well, the problem appears to be a lack of motivation or an ability to change a game, as you even said about Cardiff yourself!! Just how long do we wait? Saturday was the final straw for many, if we fail this weekend he HAS to go!!!
“Football, the one global sport, something that should be a great unifier, has come to be dominated by the angry and self-entitled.” (Jonathan Wilson)
Brilliant quote, thanks for that Pedro. Summing up my view of the beautiful game (or, at least, its fans) in one sentence, better than I could in a whole page.
“As much as I’m frustrated by City’s form I’m more saddened by the civil war that seems to have broken out amongst City fans.”
Agreed. We all need to calm down and realise this is not black & white, but a big grey area, with a lot of detail and complication. ‘Sack or Keep’ is way too simplistic.
“…people seem to enjoy the hatred.”
Sadly true. Reminds me of the “15 minutes of hate” from 1984 at times. Some fella who sits behind me has become intolerable. Almost no stray pass, sideways pass, backward pass, wayward cross or missed tackle fails to be met with cries of “f***ing USELESS”, accompanied by showers of saliva for those in front. Charming atmosphere for the kids who sit near him. And he calls himself a ‘supporter’.
Of course every fan has a right to an opinion, but there’s a huge difference between expressing opinion and hurling abuse. I don’t like the way players have been vilified just for not quite performing as well as at other times. See Holt or Snodgrass as recent examples. It is called FORM. Form comes and goes, for EVERY player that has ever played football.The fluctuations of fortune go up and down as well. It happens.
As for the Hughton criticism, I respect reasoned argument, but “I’m bored watching Norwich nowadays” is not a reason to sack him. Bringing off a promising 19-year-old (who he did very well to sign for the club) in a game is not a reason to shout abuse at him. “Play two up front” is not the magic answer to our poor goalscoring record. And using Southampton as a positive example to justify a sacking is frankly ridiculous. They’ve spent far more than us in recent seasons. And yes, they do look like a fantastic team so far, having only been beaten once, but let’s not forget who it was who inflicted that single defeat.
11th place was a great achievement, recovering from the loss of Lambert, who I believe will become one of the great managers of his generation. This season we are rebuilding with new players, not just new to City, but to eachother, to the Premier League, and even to this country. This takes time. I believe Hughton deserves that time, and City will benefit if he’s given that time. We aren’t that far off. Hard to accept after a 0-7, but if we bury that pen, if Olsson sticks that chance away vs Chelsea, we’re mid-table and buzzing. Small margins.
Not looking forward to Saturday, but I trust McNally, and I’m also encouraged by the views I read on this site. The in/out divide seems about 50/50 here, but at least there’s a bit of sanity! We need to hold on to that as Canaries in the coming weeks.
“For the sake of the club, everyone at the Hammers game has to be positive otherwise meltdown will occur. Hughton and the boys have a lot of work to do but need ’support’ from the ’supporters’.”
Amen to that!
Never Mind The Danger!