“Earlier in the season we would have lost that game”.
The words of Robert Snodgrass in post-match conversation with BBC Radio Norfolk’s Chris Goreham, following yesterday’s bruising encounter at the Stadium of Light – and he’s probably right.
Such has been City’s form on the road, few predicted anything other than defeat yesterday – I understand the Sky Sports pundits were unanimous in this regard – and faced with a Sunderland side fresh from a cup victory over Chelsea it was difficult to argue against.
Home wins in the Premier League against Man City and Newcastle also suggested that, despite their league position, the Black Cats are capable of beating anyone on their day when on home turf.
I was therefore a tad surprised that contentment was in such short supply upon that final blast of Martin Atkinson’s whistle. Twitter, Canary Call and the message boards were awash with moans and groans from those who perceived Chris Hughton – yes, it was all his fault… again – to have set his stall out for a 0-0.
“Only one substitution, and it was too late”.
“Settling for a draw…”.
“Poyet going for it, City make no changes. Says it all”.
I can only assume those who have been baying for Hughton’s blood, and who have had a frustrating few weeks, were simply grasping at the first straw available to revive their favourite hashtag.
All of which is a shame – especially with a modicum of peace having broken out around the old place in the last fortnight – because I actually thought it was a good point. Controversial I appreciate, but having witnessed us either surrender meekly or get completely blown away on the majority of away trips, to grind out a point in tricky circumstances strikes me as a small step forward.
Of course it was far from perfect and there remains plenty for Hughton and his team to work on, but wind the clock back a few weeks and I’d have given anything for an ugly away draw, especially one that’s accompanied by a clean sheet.
The accusation of Hughton setting the side up to nick a point was baffling. Managers who do that don’t normally play with two strikers and even if they do, when one is substituted on 77 minutes he’d be replaced by a midfielder. The City boss did neither of those things, which says to me he set out to win the game… or am I missing something?
Similarly, his selection of two wingers – the inclusion of Robert Snodgrass admittedly forced perhaps by the injury to Jonny Howson – didn’t smack of someone who was intent on grinding out a draw. And with Nathan Redmond growing increasingly anonymous as the game wore on – after a sparkling first-half – Hughton could have been forgiven for bolstering the left-side by bringing on Javier Garrido, but he resisted.
Another area of improvement in recent weeks has been the number of chances created in front of goal and this continued yesterday. Despite being under pressure for long second-half spells City always looked a threat on the break; Gary Hooper and Ricky van Wolfswinkel both missing when, on another day, their efforts could have flown in past Mannone.
A few weeks ago we couldn’t carve out a chance for toffee, so surely another small step forward?
Ricky, in particular, may feel he should have done better when faced one-on-one with the Sunderland keeper, but it’s still early days in his quest for match fitness and at least he did force the keeper into a save. It was great to see the Dutchman back on the pitch and even better to see him walk away from Wes Brown’s ridiculous attempt to scythe him in two.
If I were to be critical I’d have to again question their ability to keep the ball – particularly when under the cosh – with the ball all too often being given away cheaply when hassled and harried.
When under pressure the last thing you can afford to do is invite more but in those nerve-jangling closing stages it happened just a little too often. But with Michael Turner at his belligerent best on his return to Wearside City’s defence did *just* enough and even survived John Ruddy’s failed attempt at filling in at right-back; Ki Sung-Yueng’s effort gloriously earning three points instead of a winning goal.
The forced omission of Howson was obviously a blow for Hughton and there’s little argument that, despite the voracious work-rate of Bradley Johnson, the quality of passing and guile suffered a notch as a result.
So, while yet again we may may have veered off slightly from a famous Brazilian’s perception of the beautiful game it was definitely a point gained and one that sets us up nicely for a Boxing Day date with Fulham.
With those around us in the table losing ground I’d have to say yesterday – despite what the miserablists may say – was a good one.
We have momentum right now… and that can only be a good thing.
I think a point on the road is always a good one. However I understand the frustration of the boo boys and girls. You touched on the point of keeping the ball. Yesterday was a perfect example of letting a team off the hook. Sunderland are a poor side and have been for a while. I think the frustration is that we have the players capable of playing attacking football and retention football but we’re not playing in a way that is conducive to either. Whether that is down to confidence or tactics I do not know. Sunderland left huge gaps in the midfield and defence yesterday, especially in the second half and had we had the confidence to keep the ball I believe we’d have come away with an even more valuable 3 points. I think that outlines the general frustration amongst city fans this year. Having said all that I do believe we are heading in the right direction, so come on lads, believe I’m yourselves because we believe in you! OTBC
Well balanced and reasoned article as usual, Gary. To Dan (1), I agree with your comments too – but would point out that with Howson and Tettey missing yesterday, we had 2 of our 3 ideal central midfielders missing yesterday. It is our lack of alternatives here other than Johnson, who will always reduce rather than improve our ball retention, that for me has been our most glaring gap for the last 2 months. I really hope that Chris finds a way of strengthening here in January, plus the one centre back that has also often been mentioned. I don’t see further need to strengthen our strike force at the moment; the urgent need, rather, is to provide them with better service.
I am sure that it is right to view the result as a point gained rather than two points lost. Poyet admitted that they had to win and the best opportunities came to City. For once Hooper was off target but remember we were playing without one of our best midfielders (Howson) and Snoddy barely fit. He lacks pace at the best of times and that showed yesterday.
The defence was solid with Bassong keeping concentration and Turner clearing lines as if his life depended on it. Whitaker was not so good, missing an interception, losing track of an aerial ball and giving the ball away. But overall it was a good point and if RvW can get firing, the goals for column may go up a few notches.
As for subs, Wes might have come on but remember in the second half we were under pressure. He could have replaced Elmander or Snodgrass but it was better that RvW got a bit of a game.
I share your positive outlook Gary. Sure, the style/passing/possession can improve but that could be leveled by fans of all PL clubs below the top 4-5. Even for all the swagger of the Swans and the Saints, they aren’t that far ahead in the table.
The 3 hammerings we took (against the current top 3) have blinded some to the facts of our away record. Our 7 points gained puts us 4th in the teams below Spurs in 8th (better than Hull or Stoke who are above us overall). Let’s face facts – that’s the real league we are in.
You are spot on when you say there are a section of fans out there who want Hughton out irrespective of where we are in the table and will never eat any humble pie. I can just see them moaning and groaning over their Christmas roasts because they haven’t got their way and had him removed before Santa’s emptied his sack.
A win against Fulham should set us up well for a top 12 finish. I’m off for my winter break in Malaysia to get a ‘tan’.
Saying “we didn’t have player X or player Y” are just excuses that in the larger scheme, don’t matter. When 38 games are played and the season is over, you don’t get any additional points for missing players. All that counts are points.
In this instance we were lucky. Every team below us lost or drew, so we opened up the gap. It could easily have gone the other way. We could also have opened up a greater gap. So, to be happy that we picked up one point against bottom of the league, to me, is worrying. If we can’t beat bottom, who were very very poor, who should we expect to beat away?
Johnson has done great work for NCFC and I appreciate it. But his time has passed. We need to look for a replacement. Sunderland were there for the taking, but our lacklustre players held us back from getting a win.
I’m starting to believe we’ll stay up, but largely due to the implosion of other teams like last year.
Dave B – You’ve hit the nail on the head, even if you see it as a negative; all that counts are points, and yesterday was another point. Sunderland aren’t having a good season, doesn’t mean they’re a bad side, as their mid-week result showed. So in my opinion, a good point. It took us to six points above the drop, with Fulham coming next week and much better form in recent games than we had at the start of the season. New recruits are bedding in and performing, we’re looking more aggressive going forward and yesterday showed the defensive grit that’s cost us dearly in other away games.
OK, it’s not been a miraculous turnaround, but miraculous turnarounds seldom lead to lasting form, they just give a glimmer of hope before bringing things crashing down. What we’re seeing at Norwich is hard work paying off and a slow but steady improvement in performance. Plenty of work still to be done, but we’re seeing progress and that’s not something to be sniffed at. Norwich is a club that builds for the long-term rather than the short-term, and for that Hughton’s the man.
Good analysis, Gary. Also agree with Dan Littlechild above. Hughton is defensive but he will keep us up. And it’s taken longer for the new players to bed in than a lot of us expected. Hooper and Fer are first class signings. And Hughton is very good at bringing in players. Fed up with the moaning though.Michael D is right about the January window. Strengthen in defence please.
I know no one can legislate for having Tettey and Howson out at the same time, but Fer apart, I think Bradders was our only fit CM yesterday.
Surely a major worry with important games – and wintry pitches starting to come thick and fast?
Anyone know if we can recall Surman in a worst case scenario?
I am glad I was driving home from the game and not listening to or reading the moans.
In no sense at all was it a negative deployment or performance.
Very, very few PL teams play 4-4-2 away from home, but we did. And, as you say Gary, we played with genuine widemen and sent a striker on for a striker.
Of course, with Sunderland desperate for a win, we had to defend at times, particularly in the second half, when their desperation increased. That’s how football works.
So, yep, it was a good point.
Some people have made up their minds about our manager and those minds remain closed now.
One bloke behind me was shouting that it was effing sh** and Hootun should send on another striker. That would have been 3 up and would have ceded the midfield!
When I told him I thought it would be a good point he swore at me repeatedly and — the first time I’ve seen a grown man do this — made v-signs in my face. Afterwards several people told me they agreed with me.
I think the tide is turning, but a few Canutes stand their ground, ignoring what is really happening.
Whilst I was disappointed that we didn’t pick up three points, the draw away from home was a good result. If you need convincing, the Sunderland Echo says it all…
“Norwich looked by far the more dangerous side and, had it not been for several excellent saves from Vito Mannone, the result would have been far worse.”
http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/sunderland-afc/football-echo-verdict-sunderland-s-glaring-deficiencies-have-alarm-bells-ringing-1-6330946
I thought Bradley Johnson, despite the regular criticism, had a decent game, keeping it simple and retaining possession. Turner was excellent at the back and I can only imagine that Bassong’s instructions were to support Hooper at every opportunity given the number of times he ran forward.
I’m looking forward to seeing RvW and Hooper playing together – having both on the field will mean more space for each. I expect though that RvW will be eased back into the fray carefully.All in all, I think we can look forward to 2014 with some optimism.
To be honest there are a few people who obviously have no idea how difficult this league is. A point at Sunderland when the home side were working so damn hard (for their lives) is a great result. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive and knows very little about the game or Chris Hughton. It makes me embarrassed to know that these people support Norwich. Wake up and SEE what we have for the money spent and then you may realize how hard our boys work.
“To be honest there are a few people who obviously have no idea how difficult this league is. A point at Sunderland when the home side were working so damn hard (for their lives) is a great result. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive and knows very little about the game or Chris Hughton.”
A draw to the bottom team is a “great result”. What what would a draw to a middle of the table team be? A miracle? I’m sorry for having hopes higher than not scoring against a team with a -18 goal difference.
How far our expectations have fallen in just 12 months.
@4 “You are spot on when you say there are a section of fans out there who want Hughton out irrespective of where we are in the table and will never eat any humble pie.”
You should go back and read the comments on match reports where we get hammered. They are strangely quiet and absent of ‘Hughton inners’.
Right now, I’m leaning towards keeping him until the end of the season, as I think he’ll keep us up, but largely due to imploding teams around us. I’ll gladly eat humble pie if he does that. I still don’t think he’s the man for us. To me he just doesn’t have the cutting edge and I believe we’ve gone backwards, not forwards, under him. Happy to be proved wrong.
@ Dave B, we all have our frustrations, but it is definitely very hard to be partisan in the Premier League and to remain even vaguely balanced. I think my own views more broadly have shifted within the last few weeks with the level of insanity that has escalated around managers, culminating in the crazy Cardiff stuff, but also people like Brendan Rogers saying that he took one look at Daniel Levy’s record of hiring and firing people at Spurs and decided not to go there.
It is totally crazy, and Hughton’s ability to remain sane whilst insanity rules around him, is quite remarkable. He also is taking a long term not a short term approach, as a few here have pointed out, and that is also more widely under appreciated. Mick Dennis’ account above of the v-signing fan absolutely horrifies me – I read something like that, and my response is I am appalled to have someone like that supporting the same club as me, and I am going to take more care as Gary says to look at what is in the glass and appreciate what Hughton is trying to do. I might not agree with his tactics all the time, but he certainly does have skills and acumen, including in recruiting players, which are not always appreciated. He is a person who takes time, but on many fronts he has been getting there gradually.
I have a son who is able to attend games much more often than I am at the moment, and he says that Norwich are a much better side now than they were last season, and I believe him. As for the Sunderland game, yes, they may be bottom of the league, but they have just beaten Chelsea too, and there are no awful sides in this league, no side that one has an automatic entitlement to beat, and to draw against a side who saw as a side they had to beat, it is a good result.
The team is slowly gelling, despite their being key injuries. I hope City fans can be supportive enough over the next months to appreciate this and play their part in acknowledging and lifting the team during match days. Sadly, I know of course that this will not always happen, but hope it happens enough at least.
Dave B (6, 12 & 13): I was going to commend you for being the only ‘outer’ with the guts(?) to put the mockers on our recent fine run on this site..but then you say “..you’re leaning towards keeping him (CH)..”!
You say that our recovery in the table has been due to other teams “imploding”! Which teams have imploded? West Brom are on a bad run but that can happen to anyone – they haven’t imploded. Sunderland and Palace under new management are much tougher to beat. Sunderland beat Chelsea 3 days ago and yet some seem to think we should have gone there and beaten them by 3 or 4 – ridiculous thinking. Their poor GD is largely a result of the Di Canio time.
Our boys (including the boss) have recovered magnificently from the Man City/Liverpool thrashings – by the way, don’t know if you’ve noticed that said teams have gone on to muller other teams after us? I for one raise a glass of mulled wine to the boys and look forward to a realistic finish between 9th and 14th..perfectly happy with that.
Enjoy that humble pie with all the trimmings.
Well said Gary, I was at the match with some Sunderland friends and was warned that tha Black Cats were on a roll after Tuesday’s victory over Chelsea! I bravely said I don’t mind if you win providing we turn up and give you a game!
I was more than happy with our performance and I was the only one in our group that was happy to come away with a point and a clean sheet!
I’m glad you mentioned JR’s faux pas, nobody else seems to have noticed it, but he made a few fine stops to atone for it!
OTBC
@15 Russell, I respectfully disagree.
WBA have not won since Nov 2 when they beat… Palace. Before that it was Sept.
Cardiff, poor form and owner nonsense.
Fulham have won one in nine.
Sunderland, despite a good cup win, have won one in 7 with Poyet sounding beaten.
Palace are my biggest concern because I think they can escape the relegation zone. I just want us to avoid being the ones to replace them.
As I say, I would keep CH for the rest of the season to minimize upsetting the squad. I would change him in the summer. I like the guy, I think he’d make a great Director of Football. But I’ve rarely seen anything tactical come out of him that’s made me think we’ll start competing against the big guns, like we used to.
In 2011/12 we got points from the following big teams:
Liverpool
Chelsea
Everton
Spurs
Arsenal
In 2012/13:
Arsenal
Man U
Spurs
Man City
Everton
So far this season (with what can be called CH’s squad):
Everton
Hopefully we’ll turn this around. For long term survival we need to compete against the top teams, you can’t always hope to get all our points from the bottom half.
Just to clarify one item. I don’t ever expect us to beat the big teams (of course I hope). BUT, if you don’t get those 10+ points from the big teams, they need to come from somewhere else. So our results against teams like Sunderland become vital.