Coventry City, Oxford United, Norwich City, Wimbledon, Portsmouth and Luton Town.
All of the above have one thing in common. They have all won a major English football trophy at Wembley within the last three decades.
We were the first – winning the League Cup in 1985. Oxford United succeeded us as winners of that trophy a year later and Coventry City won the FA Cup in 1987. Wimbledon and Luton Town won the FA and League Cups respectively in 1988 with Portsmouth winning the FA Cup in 2008.
There can be little doubt that, following each and every one of those trophy wins, both players and fans of the clubs concerned regarded it as the dawn of a new footballing age at those clubs; a springboard for success in the future.
If only.
Two of the clubs concerned spent some of the intervening years scratching around in non-league football. One was relocated to another town and had to start again from that level and, as I write, are marooned in League Two; a point and a place above Portsmouth (the team that lost at home to Accrington Stanley at the weekend and whose continuing existence as a football club at all, given their accumulation of debt in recent years, defies business logic).
Put it another way, a lot of businesses whose straits have not been as dire as Portsmouth’s were, and remain, have long gone under and are very dead and buried indeed.
Coventry City have got off relatively lightly. Yes they’re in League One (and look like they’ll be there for the foreseeable future), have been in administration and had a spell in exile at Northampton, but, other than that, are just about alive and starting to kick back.
These are ignominious times for a club that were members of English football’s top flight without a break (a period that saw teams with the perceived greater pedigree of Aston Villa, Leeds United, both Manchester clubs, Chelsea, Newcastle United and Tottenham all drop out of it at one point or another) from 1967 to 2001; a run that included nine consecutive seasons as members of the Premier League.
Nine in a row. We’ve had three goes at the Premier League since 1992 and have managed three in a row at best (twice) plus a one-off campaign under Nigel Worthington. Seven in total. In other words, in terms of longevity, Coventry City have a better Premier League ‘pedigree’ than us. Even Wimbledon have had one season longer as members of the Premier League than us.
Yet look at them now.
We’ve all, at varying levels, been lamenting the fact that the Canaries have been struggling to adapt to life in the Championship this time around and that the board’s pre-season vow of intent to return to the Premier League at the first time of asking (and it was intent, not a promise – there’s a difference) has, at times, fallen rather flat.
The same old rows and accusations have broken out. “Plastics” versus “Bed Wetters” all over again, Norwich fans squabbling amongst each other and at each other, the management, the board and the players.
I do wonder if those that have given the likes of John Ruddy and Nathan Redmond the more than occasional broadside so far this season will then lament about those players perceived “lack of loyalty” if either, or both, depart for pastures new in January?
Doesn’t loyalty apply both ways? Or are we, as fans, able to be inconsistent in both support and opinion while the players are not?
Players are expected, it’s demanded of them to give their absolute best at all times for the good of the team and the club. No matter how bad things look on or off the pitch, how gloomy the outlook, the performance, the pitch, referee or opposing ground, the proverbial 110 per cent is expected of the players at all times and without exception.
And woe betide any who have a bad game or make a mistake. Just ask Ruddy.
Or Russell Martin. Or Michael Turner. Lewis Grabban come to that. And Bradley Johnson. Plus quite a few others.
Not to forget Neil Adams. Or Delia Smith and Michael Wynn-Jones. Plus David McNally. And that Stephen Fry, what’s he ever done?
Boooo! Something should be done about things like this.
To which I would almost certainly agree, had I been a fan of Oxford United, Wimbledon, Luton Town, Coventry City or Portsmouth.
One of football’s most endearing consistencies is that it is cyclical – a state of affairs and inevitability which you could apply to most clubs, one way or the other. It might all be relative and, to paraphrase George Orwell, some clubs are more cyclical than others.
But there are few who have been completely immune to its wiles.
Don’t believe me?
Let’s look at the 1992/93 season. Premier League members on its opening day included Oldham Athletic, Sheffield United and Wimbledon.
Five current members of the Premier League started that season in Division Two (now League One), namely Stoke City, West Brom, Fulham, Burnley and Hull City – who avoided relegation that campaign by just three points.
Since the Premier League was introduced in 1992, a total of 46 clubs – half the current total of clubs in the four English leagues – have played in it, of which only seven have been there ever since – and four of them have never even won the thing.
Blackburn won it in 1995 but have spent the last three years in the Championship being nothing very special at all and, in all likelihood, never will again. “Ah, but…” the detractors would say, “… at least they’ve had a Premier League title win to look back on, at least they’ve had that memory.”
More reason to miss that and to want more I’d reckon than settle back on your laurels and accept mediocrity as a price to pay for ten minutes in the limelight.
Cyclical fate in football is relative?
It needn’t have such wide swings from one extreme to the other as some of the above examples demonstrate.
Liverpool dominated in the 70s and 80s to the extent that we weren’t all bored rigid with the equivalent of today’s top four. They were the top one. Look at them now, outplayed by FC Basel in the Champions League last week while, despite Brendan Rodgers claims to the contrary, Manchester United toyed with them the way a cat might a mouse on Sunday afternoon.
And a very old and poorly mouse at that.
Yet even Manchester United have found themselves subject to football’s cyclical ways. From 1993 to 2001 they won the Premier League title seven times. Yet from 2002 to 2010, they won it ‘just’ four times.
How many times from 2011-2019 I wonder. Less than four? Don’t be surprised if it is.
People often – and I include myself in this – refer to football with a world to the wise nod and utter that old saying, “the more things change, the more they stay the same.”
Yet is that right or even fair? English football is in a state of constant flux. Some clubs rise and rise, some rise and fall, some do nothing but fall. And then they fall some more.
Remember those cup winners I listed at the beginning of this piece? Who would have thought, for example, that, when the captains of Oxford United and Luton held those trophies aloft at Wembley that the next major trophy the clubs might have a chance of winning might be the one that belongs to the Football Conference?
As it is, it took Luton five attempts to even fight their way out of that level again, whilst Oxford did it in a season less. The current Conference includes eleven clubs that used to be Football League members, one of which, Grimsby Town, finished three places shy of a play-off place for the Premier League in 1993; that at the end of a season that saw them beat six clubs that have since played at that level.
And then there’s Notts County, relegated at the end of the 1991/92 campaign from the ‘old’ First Division and missing, as a consequence, by just four points, the chance to be founder members of the Premier League .
Instead City we were able to claim that place by a margin of just three points going the other way, a narrow squeak in the end that wasn’t helped by the fact we took just one point out of six against Notts County that season; drawing 2-2 at Meadow Lane and losing 1-0 at Carrow Road – a fifth consecutive defeat and one of seven we suffered in our last eight games that season.
We finished third in the first ever season of the Premier League, yet we were lucky to be there at all. Indeed, if the 1-0 home win over Luton Town on 26th October been reversed, it would have been us relegated at the end of that season with Luton taking our place in the Premier League the following August.
Who knows, maybe they would have ended up finishing third the following May whilst we eventually found ourselves kicking off the 2009/10 season facing AFC Wimbledon in the English Premier Conference?
Supposition of course. But an impossible one?
Not at all, as the fates of so many clubs in under three decades – and, in the case of Portsmouth, a time much shorter than that – have clearly shown.
But what is also very clear to see is the fact that – despite our apparent footballing failings – we have fared better than some much bigger clubs, who a greater track record of trophy success than us in recent years.
You could almost argue that, even taking this seasons ‘lows’ into account, we are still, even now, fighting above our weight and doing well; better than many and on a par with many more who would consider themselves bigger and better football clubs than us.
I want us back in the Premier League – despite everything – because it’s the highest level of the domestic game in England and, for all its faults, one of the most well regarded, prestigious and envied leagues in world football.
But we don’t belong there and it’s not, no matter what anyone says, our “rightful place”. Our rightful place is where we are, well, right now. The fact remains that since we were first promoted to the top flight of English football in 1972, the 43 seasons that have followed have, up to and including this one, seen us spend 24 of them in the First Division/Premier League, 18 in the Second Division/Championship and just one in League One – the old Third Division.
If you want to round it up and make it from the last 50 seasons that equates to another seven in the equivalent of the Championship. Fifty seasons then and all but one spent in one of the top two leagues of English football.
At a time of year when it’s traditional to step out of the ‘right here, right now’ and reflect, take a wider look at things, that’s not bad. Not bad at all.
In fact when you look at the carnage that has been unleashed in and amongst so many other clubs during that time, it’s more than good.
It’s bloody brilliant.
And it makes me proud to be a Norwich City fan.
I totally agree. Although a long time ago now, we do have a top four premiership place to our name, something only thirteen clubs have achieved since the league was formed. The last to make that club was Manchester City.
0
For me our club surviving was by sheer luck or the inspired choice of Paul Lambert.Had he not arrived I think our history may have followed some of the Clubs mentioned,as we battled Administration.So David McNally must have had long cup of tea with PL after the Colchester defeat,which showed to what level our Club had dropped.
0
Ed,
I may be wrong, but didn’t Fulham come down to the Championship with us at the end of last season?
Regardless of this, another enjoyable article with a good dose of reality. In the main we have done fairly well over the years and at least we are reasonably stable as a club and have not gone doolally as others have done.
0
Another ‘let’s be a small club’ post, blaming the fans. This is getting really old.
Rather than point at some clubs that have done awfully and suggest ‘at least we’ve done better than them’, how about looking at where we’ve been (even just a couple of seasons back) and suggest ‘why aren’t we there anymore’? I’d say the answer to that question is much more applicable than a comparison to Milton Keynes.
I just can’t get behind the mentality of “at least we didn’t go into administration” being our greatest achievement in the last two decades and laughing at those who did.
0
And secondly… I really don’t understand this…
“The current Conference includes eleven clubs that used to be Football League members”
Of course it does. Isn’t that how promotion and relegation works?
0
Dave B (4) – “This is getting really old…”
Ditto your predictable reply to any piece that examines the club’s place in the Football League’s pecking order.
To quote Ed: “… I want us back in the Premier League because it’s the highest level of the domestic game in England…”
And “… we have fared better than some much bigger clubs, who have a greater track record of trophy success than us in recent years.”
Just two quotes but it reads like a well-balanced piece IMHO.
0
Hi Gary,
I’d be interested to know if you did a tally if posts on this site along the lines of “let’s be the best we can” vs. “don’t expect too much / defending the status quo”, if you’d see a well-balanced site.
I know what I suspect the outcome would be.
Dave
0
And just to note, a well-balanced piece would look up too and ask ‘what if’. Not just down. That’s what balance is.
There are plenty of teams in the Premiership who have spent a good amount of time in the Championship and have gone on to do well.
0
Dave (7) – Old ground mate.
Our writers have carte blanche to express their own opinions and there is (and never has been) no editorial edict on the tone and content of the blogs.
I’m sorry we frustrate you so; we just do our best to say it as we see it. Some will agree, some will disagree and some are indifferent.
Gary
0
Dave (7) – And thanks for the mini-lesson on what constitutes ‘balance’.
0
@9 Gary Gowers
“Our writers have carte blanche to express their own opinions and there is (and never has been) no editorial edict on the tone and content of the blogs.”
That doesn’t make the site, as a publisher, balanced.
0
Dave (11) – You win. There remains no obligation to read MFW. We’re simply trying, and failing by the sound of it, to provide some interesting and thought provoking content for Norwich supporters. Nothing more. No agenda.
0
What a sad exchange of views!
Whilst I aspire to see our club at the top of the Premier League, I am also a realist who realises that we are unlikely to ever have the money that will ensure this. Even in the event that some kind person does come forward with a billion or so, the EUFA Financial Fair Play rules now prevent clubs in our position from benefiting from this as we have to generate our own income. Where we are, physically, means that we cannot generate sufficient to make a difference. The Premier League will always consist of haves and have nots and we are firmly in the latter category. Therefore, I am content to enjoy what we have. In the main, over the sixty or so hears that I have been supporting Norwich, I have enjoyed most of it. Including reading the articles on this website, principally because they are written by fellow supporters.
Keep up the good work!
OTBC
0
(13) – “sad exchange”? Personally I always find an opinion ding-dong such as that very entertaining!
Dave B.’s assertion of an unbalanced site is frankly bizarre with little to no factual basis but it’s his opinion for which he has the right to air.
The club and its supporters should always strive to reach greater heights but not forget where we came from and the strides already made. Onward and upward hopefully into 2015.
0
Dave B – you clearly enjoy reading MFW and you clearly also help balance perspectives yourself on the site! For the most part I acknowledge I enjoy reading your views, except when you dig in a bit too deeply. But if you feel the site needs some further ‘balance’ I’m sure Gary would consider posting some of your own musings…
0
@15 Michael
To be fair to Gary (and the team), he already did last year.
It’s my personal opinion, I just found this article less than balanced. I’ve seen Oxford play dozens of times (I even went to see them on their US pre season tour a couple of years back) and I can assure you that when we’re using them as our bar for success then something is very wrong.
The real kicker is I’m just bored of reading articles that put blame on the fans and protect the board when the article would stand perfectly well on it’s own without those paragraphs.
0
Having read both article and subsequent comments… And being the person who (a) launched the site and (b) approved every writer on it, I can categorically state that no-one has ever been given an editorial ‘line’ to follow.
So, let’s put that notion to bed.
What I have always sought to encourage is healthy debate; in a constructive and ‘safe’ setting of moderated comments.
But one thing I know I have always done – right from the days of Pink Un comment pieces is to try and sketch bigger pictures of the world that lies beyond the Waveney.
Because Norwich – as fine a city/City as it is – does not swim alone; does not act in isolation; is not immune to the trends and troubles of every similarly-sized club… In a football industry that is a madhouse.
It is one of the principal reasons that I wanted to get the likes of Mick (Dennis) and Charlie (Wyett) onto this site; they bring a broader perspective into play.
Which does no-one any harm.
Are we all guilty as publisher and writers of perpetuating the little ol Norwich image? I don’t think so. Do we inject regular doses of realism into the debate? I hope so.
Has every supporter still got much to be grateful for? I think so.
Take one look at the biggest club in Scotland and thank your lucky stars…
0
Well, I’ve held off longer than usual from a verbal fistfight involving Dave B!
The problem, it seems to me, is that we let Dave define the issue: ‘let’s be the best we can be’ vs ‘don’t expect too much’. This is a completely false premise, allowing him to characterise many of us (now including poor Ed) as fatalists with low horizons. Not so: we belong in the ‘let’s be the best we can be’ camp just as much as Dave.
He also loves to insinuate that a lack of articles in support of his warped view means that MFW is editorially tainted. Thanks for nailing that one, Rick.
To our non-NCFC supporting friends, I’m sure most of us (including Mick, Gary, Ed and myself) seem hopeless romantics about our club. To Dave, we’re defeatists. The difference, I think, may be this. Some of us have just a dash of realism in the cocktail of our thoughts and feelings towards City. Dave doesn’t and won’t. In a way I admire that, though it also infuriates me.
Happy Christmas to everyone (yes, Dave, including you).
0
@18 Stewart
I wouldn’t consider my views completely warped. They are, of course, opinions.
However, if I could be bothered, I could easily trawl through this site and find countless examples of justification for us being relegated to / staying in the 2nd tier, despite, as Ed points out, since getting to the top tier we’ve spent more time there than not. I consider us a top tier club. Personally, I don’t see articles reflecting that, which I find sad.
For the last two weeks, despite us beating ‘not great’ teams I’ve said ‘a win’s a win’. Nothing negative about a win. I think most people would agree with that.
Of course if you’re being balanced, the opposite of that is my attitude to a loss. A loss is a loss. But I don’t see that mimic’d on this site, or amongst the press (generally). When we lose it’s ‘we had x many chances’ or ‘so much possession’, ‘we’re only x points off x position’. Or we have Mick’s line on this site and The Scrimmage of ‘we only played poorly 3 times this season’, which is just another way of excusing most of our losses.
So to me when I see repeated posts stating how we should be grateful for / belonging where we are, I see that as defeatist and when I see excuses for continued losing, I find it very confusing.
IMHO.
0
An interesting article. All I know is that I will always support NCFC and all its players through thick and thin, never booing any individual.What good does that ever do?
0
Dave B: as you’ve perhaps observed in other fields, people with warped opinions rarely recognise them as warped. But perhaps I was harsh with that word. In the spirit of the season – festive rather than football – let me re-phrase and say that your opinions are shared by few, if any, of the writers and contributors on here. And I hope you’d agree that (by and large) they’re a pretty reasonable bunch. Worth a thought, perhaps. Best wishes
0
Whilst it is perfectly true to state, as Ed did, that since reaching the top flight we’ve spent more time there than not, that in itself, isn’t sufficient to justify considering us to be a top flight club.
Certainly, for the first part (1972-1995) we spent 20 out of 23 seasons in the top flight.
However, in the 20 seasons since we were relegated from the fledging Premier League back in 1995, we’ve spent just 4 seasons in the Premier, 15 in the Championship and 1 season in League One.
You can, of course, use stats which ever way you want to prove / disprove a theory, however, most fans would probably be of the opinion, based on our most recent record, we’re a “relatively large” second tier team.
That does not for one moment mean that the majority of fans are either accepting or grateful for being in tier two.
The way we were relegated last season still hurts me. I think we should have done a lot better than we did, but, we just weren’t consistent enough, especially away from home after Christmas.
But that’s now history and we have to deal with where we are and there aren’t many City fans who don’t want us promoted as soon as possible, me included
0
If the sentiment of this article is that we are doing OK irrespective of the weekly ups and downs of league football, and that us Canaries should appreciate that fact a little more, I wholeheartedly agree. We take too much for granted.
I don’t see this attitude as defeatist, or appeasing failure at all. More looking on the bright side of adversity, and optimistic for the future.Dave B seems to take it as a personal insult that Norwich aren’t in the top flight, and acts as if he cares more about it than anyone else. Personally I don’t see the logic in believing Norwich ‘belong’ in the Prem, or “considering us a top tier club.” We belong 7th in the Championship. That’s how football works. Every club has ups and downs, as outlined above, but our downs have been, thankfully, relatively shortlived.
I remember the big celebration at City Hall with players, coaches etc when we were promoted back to the Premier League, then Delia took the mic and announced “this club is now financially secure.” Not sexy or headline grabbing, but in the context of modern football the fact she was able to say that, and that we can now, is a very big deal. Would Portsmouth fans like to say the same I wonder? Or are they happy just to reminisce about that glorious day when they won the cup, with players they couldn’t afford?
0
@Stewart
My opinions are shared by few? Is that entirely true? Have we not had countless debates about the booing after games, the chants of “what a waste of money”? The message boards full of people suggesting we’ve been making bad management decisions for years. What about the Canary Call hosts that, until two weeks ago, were generally in dismay about how poor we’ve been this season and talking about management replacement, again. Opinions shared by few? Perhaps on this site, but to my previous point, this site largely recruits writers of a sunnier disposition, editorial line or not.
@23 Shinyshoes
Again, I don’t understand the point of looking solely at how bad things could go? Yes, we could be Portsmouth, Oxford, Milton Keynes. We could also have been sold to billionaires and have won the Premier like Man City (and let’s not forget, Delia did try and sell up). Neither happened. Why just pick the worst case scenario to make our predicament look better?
0
Dave B: as you’re well aware, we were talking in the context of this particular debate. I was referring to your stance that any hint of realism about our not being one of the country’s best-resourced clubs equates to settling for – or even worse, advocating – mediocrity. You’ve tried to argue that point many times (old ground, as Gary says) without persuading anyone. You might think about why.
Your response to Shinyshoes contains one of your classic contradictions. Delia did not ‘try to sell up’. I understand she and Michael have been open, for several years, to an offer that would benefit the club and its development. Thank God, they’ve turned down at least one that would benefit them personally but would not benefit the club. Having saved the club, they now care about passing it into the right hands. Yes, we have quite a bit to be grateful for.
0
Dave, you misrepresent the arguments of others before you make your own points to the contrary. I’ve never seen anyone on here say that avoiding administration has been our biggest achievement of the last 20 years. I’ve never known any City fan, any football fan even, content with mediocrity, or longing for season after season of mid-table obscurity.
Every football fan wants glory for their team. The difference is that most of them understand that we can’t ALL have it, ALL the time, and that success takes time to build. Solid foundations are essential, and luckily we have those, whether it makes you happy or not.
0