The open-top bus tours are probably already arranged and no doubt Elton John and Harry Redknapp are booked to join in with the bunting hanging and champagne popping.
Before the top two is a giant chasm on whose other side lie the Premier League’s giants and not-so-giants. But right now Watford and Bournemouth fans could not give a gnat’s chuff about that, and rightly so.
Personally, I think it’s sad that the first ‘English’ Championship team to cross the line are owned by Italians, managed by a Serb – their fourth manager of the season – and whose playing squad has just a 25 per cent British feel to it. And that figure is only likely to drop as they attempt to strengthen for the bigger challenges to come.
While Bournemouth do have a Russian pulling their financial strings, their structure and story – certainly compared to Watford’s – is much more admirable and ‘Roy of the Rovers’ in style. Consequently I genuinely wish them good luck and best wishes.
Behind them lie City plus six others – all left in limbo. All still in with a sniff of promotion and desperate to join them on their journey to the big boys’ league.
The disappointing draw at Rotherham summed up in the proverbial nutshell why we are play-off bound and not preparing to beat off a bunch of Cottagers in a ‘promotion already-wrapped-up’ style celebration.
Despite being down to ten men early doors, we got our noses in front but couldn’t hang on against a team fighting tooth and claw – or headlock and grapple to be more accurate – at the bottom end of the table.
The nutshell is that we’ve dropped way too many points to bottom-half teams. The list is a long one and we all know the details.
Therein lies a Championship lesson that Watford can provide: be ruthless with the minnows and you give yourself a strong chance of promotion.
From Watford’s 88 points, 68 were accrued from the sides below tenth place. City have taken just 50 points from those same sides. That’s a huge difference.
Similarly for goals scored. Watford’s 90 goal haul is made up of 69 against teams placed 11th to 24th. Norwich have found the back of the net just 55 times against those sides.
Conversely, of course, is the comparison of results against the other sides who have been battling at the top end – first to tenth. The Canaries are perched on top in that mini-table with ten wins, three draws and five defeats out of the eighteen games. That’s 33 points out of 54 from the other nine top-ten sides.
Watford? They sit in eighth place with just 20 points out of 54. That too is a huge difference. Similarly Bournemouth, with Charlton still to play, have taken only 25 from 51 points – and are sixth in the mini-league – but have cracked in 73 out of their 95 goals against the Championship’s ‘also-rans’.
So both promoted sides have turned it on against the lesser sides but, more often than not, have been found wanting against the better sides. City, of course, didn’t lose to either.
So, how does that bode for their survival chances next season?
Well, Leicester and Burnley cruised it last season in the Championship but have had a torrid time in the Premier League’s bottom three this time round after not making too many squad additions.
In 2013/14, Leicester took 28 points from a possible 54 from the top ten and a whopping 74 from the rest, while Burnley took just 26; both more than Bournemouth and certainly Watford. Surely a bad omen for their chances next season?
In 2010/11, Norwich got 35 points against fellow top ten teams and went on to comfortably cope with the bigger clubs in the top division.
My theory therefore is that if you can’t break the 30 point barrier from the best teams in the Championship but still get promoted, you’re going to have one hell of a struggle unless you can buy in real quality or experience, or both.
And that all puts us in a good place if we can negotiate the minefield of the play-offs and strengthen wisely.
As Fulham prepare to head to Norfolk on the back of a spirit-raising win over Middlesbrough, good luck to the Hornets and the Cherries next season, the sting in the tale being that I fear for their chances of survival despite the bullish comments of respective chairmen and managers.
I reckon ‘Ol Reg Dwight will be back at his LA poolside while his beloved team’s chances flicker and fade like a candle in a hurricane-force wind.
Not sure Bournemouth have any celebrity fans – apart from one or two ex-managers – but expect some B-list pop and soap stars to pop up and pledge lifelong allegiance now they are in the big time.
Despite all the ‘what ifs’ that spring to mind for our team from a bruising campaign – the tightest and toughest ever – with more ups and downs than a hyperactive yoyo, the play-offs are not such a bad place to end up.
It all makes for an exciting if nerve-shredding extra time, add-on feature in which we’ll have a fighting chance of emerging with smiling faces, and are better equipped than others for a first season back where we belong.
Game on…
Really hope you guys lose in the playoffs. Preferably to Ipswich.
Watford fan here. I think a lot of the above doesn’t look beyond the statistics.
For example, if we had had Joka for the whole season, we would’ve comfortably won the league. The first manager lost the dressing room and resigned; Garcia had health problems and resigned; McKinley was sacked as the board felt they’d been too hasty in the appointment. Joka was appointed and inherited a split dressing room with players putting themselves before the team. He made some strong decisions and got rid of some high profile players and stamped his styly on the team.It took until December for this to start to show and by January we were on course. With one game to play, we have already amassed 50pts in the last 23 games. We’re much stronger than the league table suggests.
One advantage we have over Bournemouth and those you mentioned that were previously promoted but are struggling, is that we already have a number of Prem level players – Gomez, Layun, Angella, Tozer, Parades, Cathcart, Watson, Munari and Motta, not to mention those that clearly have earned the right to be in the Prem (with or without Watford) – Deeney, Anya, Abdi, Ighalo and Pudil (all of whom are full internations except Deeney).
Additionally, I think you’re going to be very surprised at the quality of signings we are going to make.
Where did you get 25% of Watford’s playing squad being British? It’s over 30% if one doesn’t include the Irish lads and if you do (i.e. the criteria is from the British Isles) it’s 46%. Include the loan outs and it’s 51%. Strange thing to mention…
Also why ‘English’? We are an English club in an English town embedded in the local community. Is Cardiff a Malaysian team? Is Liverpool a US team? Man City a UAE team? If so, does that make Norwich a Woking-Welsh team (as neither Delia nor her husband are from Norwich)?
It’s a shame that you peppered what would’ve been a good starting point for a debate with snipes.
Regardless, I wish you all the best for the rest of the season and may the best team with the playoffs.
Oh dear jealousy is a terrible thing and like others hope u lose to Ipswich
Great analysis of the respective points profiles for Watford and Bournemouth, although I’m not sure it’s deserving of the responses @ 1 and 2?
Both teams have done exceptionally well against teams from the lower half of the table (and not so well against the upper parts) but that’s why they’re deserving to be where they are.
Ultimately, however, it’s not just about how you do against those at either the top or the bottom. It’s about how you do against all of the other 23 teams over 46 games. Both deserve to be promoted for the reason that they’ve done better overall than the other 22 teams.
They should enjoy the moment and, hopefully, we’ll be joining them in about a months time.
Always good to cast our net wider than the Canary Nation, but not sure Russ’ piece was deserving of quite that level of venom from our friends from Hertfordshire.
Unless I’m missing something he wrote: “… I genuinely wish them good luck and best wishes”
And a well done from me too. Watford held their nerve better than ourselves and Middlesbrough when crunch time arrived.
*1&2 – thanks for your comments boys. “Bitter little man”..blub blub!
“gaynaries” – brilliant. The Premier League (and any other division) could do without your homophobic outlook.
I thought I paid Watford a compliment when I said they taught the lesson of beating the lesser sides consistently unlike us.
Lap it up for now but if my club ever developed into a foreign owned and managed one with a majority of foreign players, any success would be tinged with great sadness at the demise of a great tradition..and I honestly mean that.
*Steve – respect for being more restrained and gracious than the other two. Surprised at how many Watford fans take an interest in our site! Whatever the %, I don’t think you can argue that your club/team hasn’t been morphed over the past few years into one with less and less ‘home’ flavour. Wales is in the UK by the way unlike Italy, Malaysia, USA and UAE. No snipes – after the stats, I did wish you good luck.
Bournemouth were wished good luck and pointedly not Watford, so in the same spirit good luck to Derby, Middlesbrough and Ipswich. (Genuinely!!)
..damn, forgot to do the “I think I stirred up a Hornets nest” pun.
I don’t see what nationality , race , sexuality etc…has anything to do with owning or playing for a club. It’s 21st century for Christ’s sake , get a grip.
Russell, thanks for the reply.
I completely disagree the less ‘home’ flavour. Most Watford fans would likely admit that we were concerned that we would become a feeder club and / or lose our identity following the Pozzo takeover.
In fact, the opposite has happened. The previous owner divided the club and fans both with each other and within each set. Now, the community spirit is stronger than any time than I can remember and I lived through the original Taylor years. It is certainly stronger than any time since the 80’s and the Watford identity is firmly reinforced…
…which should come as no surprise as that is the model the Pozzo family use. They are football men, who grew up supporting a small team and ‘get it’.
Cheers, S.
P.S. this site shows up on the NewsNow feed, hence the Hornets visiting 😉
I think you need to analyse some of the circumstances surrounding the games where we dropped points against the “better sides” before you make assumptions based purely on statistics.Against Norwich we played the first game with ten men following a dubious red card. In the home game aagainst Norwich there was nothing between the teams until Wes Hoolahan’s ridiculous dive which conned the ref into giving a penalty which subsequently changed the game. We drew with Bourenmouth at home but in the away fixture we again had to play almost the entire match with 10 men after another ridiculous decision. We drew at Boro and beat them at home. We were beeten by Derby at home by a couple of worldy goals but battled back at their place to earn a draw with only ten men (again). Bothe games against Ipswich were extremely tight and decided by a scrappy goal on both occaisions after we’d missed our chances (for a change!)I can honestly say the only time we played badly against any of the teams in the top 8 (Oh yes we beat Brentfors twice!) was against Wolves at home on Boxing day when for some reason the players just had an off day. Good Luck in the play-offs!
As a Watford fan I both understand what you are saying and what the other Watford fans are saying. Firstly, if it hadn’t been for the Italian take-over Watford would be no more. The previous owner was involved in dubious dealings which got him banned by the FA. He was reported to have pocketed transfer fees the club got and was allegedly asset stripping the club. There would have been nothing left of the club to save. Watford fans feel that when others say that they don’t like the Pozzos owning the club what they are really saying is that they want the club destroyed, as that was the ONLY alternative.
Watford fans also get fed up with the four managers in a season comments. When people say that do they really mean that the first coach should not have been allowed to resign, and that the second, who resigned after a heart scare, should have been forced to continue working till he died? There is some argument about the third, but he was effectively a caretaker manager. He was previously employed by the club and took up the role of head coach. He did not sign a contract to become head coach and was asked to continue in his contracted role after the next coach was employed. No-one really knows what was said between him and the club.
I find it a little disappointing when Watford fans get upset about what other people write about their club. Most people from outside the fan base write out of ignorance. They just naively believe what they read in the national media (though why anybody believes what the British press says is beyond me).
Your article raised some interesting points and I had not seen the statistics before. I, personally, would much rather your lot win the play-offs than most of the other candidates.
@11 Steve – Whilst I have no idea (because I’m not a Watford fan) of the the number of overseas loanee Watford used prior to the Pozzo family taking over the club, there surely can be little doubt that the number has increased since they arrived?
Isn’t it also true that the Football League amended their rules in relation to use of overseas loan players as a direct result of Watford’s use of such players immediately following the change of ownership?
That shouldn’t be seen as a “pop” at your club, merely another fact that has arisen from the change of ownership.
Ouch -a few stings from Hornets fans. Before I get accused (further) of being a cross between Katy Hopkins and Nigel Farage, my Watford point was not a racist/xenophobic one. Of course we all want to see great players from overseas in our teams but there has to be a limit – it’s what Greg Dyke is suggesting after all. Never more than 50% non-UK players in a team/squad – for the good of home-grown young talent and the England team. It’ll never happen but won’t stop me moaning about it.
I’d love to see Roy give Troy Deeney a run out at Wembley.
*Harefield Hornet – we’ve all got a list of excuses..sorry, reasons for why our team could have picked up more points in certain games. Over 46, all these tend to even out. Watford player never gone over theatrically?
*Steve – just my view from the outside – I’m genuinely not bitter at Watford going up..a little jealous of course. Hope we can cross swords in the Premier League come August.
A couple of Watford fans make some good points here. But, as far as I can see the main point of the article is the fact that racking up around 20 points more against the teams below tenth, being consistent and ruthless, will get you promoted, and that if you falter on a semi-regular basis, as Norwich have, you will fall short. I’m thinking of games against Charlton, Leeds, Rotherham, Huddersfield, Wigan and Reading, and there are probably more.
It’s strange how some football fans (in general) seem to see fandom as a life of belligerent one-upmanship. As if the idea is to keep abreast of developments for the purposes of being unhappy about things and vilifying others. We’re all in it together, aren’t we?
You said “if my club ever developed into a foreign owned and managed one with a majority of foreign players, any success would be tinged with great sadness at the demise of a great tradition..and I honestly mean that” – From the outside looking in I can appreciate that, but the ‘foreign’ boys we’ve got along with the rest of the squad are so together and so want to do well for the fans, club & their selves, much, much more than many a group of players before them. I wouldn’t have it any other way – they are OUR players, we love them and they love us.
P.S. There’s only one team in yellow!
The Pozzo take-over happened so quickly at the start of the season in question that there was no time to make any permament signings so subsequently the new regime brought in a job-lot of spare players from Udineses and Granada (one or two of them turned out to be very good but some were woeful!)Nobody had really noticed the amount of loanees when we were stuggling in mid-table but our ascent up the divison incurred the wrath of Ian Holloway who atated he was thinking of signing all of Barcelona,s reserves! After much debate the FL clubs were asked to vote whether to close the loophole which had allowed this (Watford voted against it along with the others believe it or not)and so the rules were changed, restricting the amout of foreign loanees.
The point I was trying to make is that generally speaking we neither struggled against or were outplayed by the other teams in the top 8, which you implied would mean we were less equipped to cope with the demands of the Premier League. To be honest anyone who gets promoted is on a hiding to nothing. The most important factor will be who we recruit in the summer to add to what is already a reasonably decent squad. Anyway, good luck and if you make the PO final enjoy the expensive watered-down Carling at Wembley!
On a different subject: are there any comments that don’t get through the moderation? If homophobic bile like one of the comments above gets through, what doesn’t?
If comments appeared instantly I think it would encourage debate. Comments that breach the rules could be taken down, of course, so they wouldn’t be up there for long. Knowing that your comment might not appear for two hours means that back and forth comments, discussion, only comes about if you come back to the site over the course of a day.
I understand that the people (or person, Gary?) have lives to attend to and aren’t able to keep a constant check. But surely there can’t be much that’s worse than some of what gets posted that would be a genuine problem if comments appeared instantly. The only difference I can see is that more people would discuss things and exchange opinions. I know that I would be a lot more inclined to. Just a thought.
OTBC
Having just made that comment, I can see there’s no lack of discussion this morning!
I think the appraisal on both Bournmouth and Watford is dead on the money.
Even in the Championship both Bournmouth and Watford struggled against the better teams, but did very well against the lesser teams. All credit to them, because they did better than Norwich in that respect.
I cant see Watford surviving the Premiership without massive investment.Currently they are a 2 player team, and as we all know, Norwich ‘doubled them’ without too much effort.
I would like to see Bournmouth survive beyond the one season, but history suggests otherwise, especially if they lose Eddie Howe.
If Norwich win the playoffs, they may just have the strength to stay up, especially if they strengthen the defence, and buy a Premiership class striker. Like Bournmouth, hanging onto their manager will be essential.
Couldn’t care less.. Which team has the P next to there name in the Championship Table??
Football has moved on from ‘The good old days’ trust me, if unlimited funds poured into your coffers bringing you an amazing team that was smashing teams by 4 goal margins on a semi-regular basis that ‘tinge of sadness’ would quickly change to ‘this is how football is today’
You do come across bitter and jealous in your article, so rather than goad you, I actually hope you are next to be picked up by a proven owner with a track record of success – but only so I can come back here and see just how much you ‘care’ when it’s your team at the top of the league playing beautiful football with great players and an amazing outlook for the future.
Good luck in the playoffs.
*(16) our shade of yellow is better!
*(23)”beautiful football” / “amazing outlook” – I think you need a lie down in a dark room.
I’ll stick to my principles thank you and not choose to suit.
Watford fans – I know you’re out there now – do you really think you have more chance of staying up than last time under Aidy Boothroyd?
Keep the banter up but forget the bitter/jealous stuff. I just pointed out some facts in my piece.
Dan (23) I do think you’re getting a little carried away fella. Well done on getting promoted etc etc but your “… top of the league playing beautiful football with great players and an amazing outlook for the future” is a tad OTT. You *just* pipped us to promotion, but you’re hardly a Bayern/Barcelona combo… yet.
Interesting ‘analysis paralysis’ article but in the end it’s about ruthless consistency. The Canaries fell away in the last two games getting one point where six would have had them still ahead of Watford on goal difference. So close are the margins.
But I did smile at the Watford fanboi’s litany of ‘we were unjustly red carded’. Sh*t happens mate 😉
Bruce – Would really, really love to know who the “other” player is in our promotion winning team that’s any good – if we are a 2 player team (assuming one of them is Troy Deeney)?! As for being doubled easily by Norwich -crucial refereeing decisions played a key part in both matches. But again – good luck in the play-offs.
Wow, it’s really hostile on here – and my post was pretty reasonable in comparison.
You don’t get anywhere in this league by just lumping it up front, something previous Watford teams have been known for, our goal difference is superior to Norwich so we’re doing something right but I accept we were evenly matched in our fixtures in 2014/15.
The table says we performed better than Norwich based on our final positions – bottom line, the football IS good and those positions in the league cement this.
What Aidy didn’t have was access to players and money, that’s why we didn’t stay up. This time is different, we have a chance, a better chance than last time!
I hope Russell (24) is content with his principles, I’m happy for you but football HAS changed, so for you, I sincerely hope you stay where you are, a decent Championship team with the odd shot at the big time off the back of your Academy. Watford as a club and as a fan base aspire to so much more, we were lucky enough to have our club chosen to compete in the big time with the others – I’m happy with that, I love the idea of our small town, battling it out with Man Yoo, Chelski etc on a regular basis, I don’t weep for what was football back when you ‘were a lad’ – I and other Watford fans embrace the future!
So for all Norwich fans – again, good luck in the playoffs – for Russell, well I hope you scrape your semi finals and go on to be beaten soundly at Wembley.
Firstly this is a great article, I enjoyed it, and having somehow attracted many Watford fans its become an ‘interesting’ debate. If you don’t know Watford fans we are fairly defensive, and considering the whole football league isn’t too keen on how we’ve done things you shouldn’t be surprised.
We’ve done things more like a premier league team than a championship one; and now that we are one who can blame us? I for one don’t want us to do things like all the other Championship teams, because if you stay in the premier league long enough you will have a fair amount of foreign players. That’s just how it is, and if people don’t like or want that then they should stay in the football league and enjoy the football league show.
I started supporting Watford the same year our new owners took over. It seemed like something too exciting to miss and boy was I right. Football is about the entertainment factor and no matter what people say about Watford they are very exciting. Criticisms about the players only come across as jealousy because we are successful and people feel we cheated.
The only 2 stable teams in the premier league who have still managed to perform with mainly uk players are west brom and stoke. That’s 2 teams out of 20, I can’t imagine many more teams joining the 10 percentile so people should stop talking about foreigners as if its a bad thing, it seems almost necessary.
Again a very interesting read and some good points in your article, in my opinion Norwich v Derby would see the best football played so I hope that’s the playoff final
@23 Dan. You may not be aware of it, but the majority shareholders, plus the third largest shareholder, at Norwich are all lifelong fans.
Whilst you can never be certain who they “may pass the baton” on to, they all have expressed a preference for the next custodian to be a genuine Norwich fan, rather than some overseas investor. They have no desire to sell the club on.
For the above reasons, your Sussex stated preference for us to have an overseas owner is highly unlikely to happen.
As a general observation, Watford’s previous two ventures into the Premier League have been somewhat half hearted attempts to stay up. I suspect it will be totally different this time and it certainly needs to be, as the monies at stake make it a wholely different ball game to the Championship.
Dan(28) – ‘hostility’ is certainly not from me. You sure are a sensitive lot at Vicarage Road! It’s good to see a team make the PL after being in the doldrums for a while. At least you never had to suffer the indignity of dropping to L1 like us. You might develop a tougher skin if you had. We also sank into the financial pits very recently but didn’t need the ‘overseas’ model to claw our way out.
Call me old-fashioned (you wouldn’t be the first) but I totally admire the way your club achieved its success under Graham Taylor in the 80s. Done in the ‘proper’ way. Of course footy was different back then but I just don’t get the ‘success at any price’ argument. Splashing the cash is not a panacea for success – just ask QPR.
I look forward to seeing all these fantastic signings you seem to think are coming your way. Can I recommend a Dutch lad by the name of van Wolfswinkel?
(29) Thanks for the compliment.
Will someone please tell me who our only other decent player is in our 2 man team? – I’m desperate to find out? Does Delia know – perhaps she’ll tell me?
HAHAHAHA!!! Bitter!! WE’RE WATFORD FC, WE’RE PREMIER LEAGUE!!
All fair enough Gary.
I guess the point here is, it’s unfair to take ‘a pop’ at teams that chose ambition over sentiment, which this article seems to.
Wow….some worked up people here.
Genuinely i wish Watford and Bournemouth every success in the premier league next season. The table clearly states they will finish first & second therefore deserved of the accolades. Sincere congratulations from me. As for my beloved NCFC, i can not say i’m not disappointed with the last two games played, deserved more but managed to avoid winning both. We lacked the spark needed.lets learn lessons and win the next 4.
‘Papa’ Pozzo would be the one involved in betting and match fixing scandals back in Italy I presume?
Obviously – why do you think we’re so confident about next season – don’t tell on us though will you!!!!
The point about Watford struggling next season because they have a weak record against the top Championship clubs has been made in various articles I think.
To be honest I don’t think it’s relevant, unless they aren’t planning to recruit anyone new.
What matters for al the promoted clubs is whether they can keep their manager (Watford will, Bournemouth may not) and whether they are willing to shatter their wage structure to recruit genuine Premiership class players, especially in midfield.
Last time up we failed to do that whilst the likes of Hull and Swansea did. Whilst that meant we cleared our debt it also meant relegation.
The other pitfall that any of the promoted clubs should avoid is to sign too many players who have been relegated from the division. QPR have fallen for this big time – Green, Caulker, Fer and several others have been part of relegated teams in the past. If you are relying on a group of previously relegated players all you are doing is creating your own relegation team.
From a playing point of view both Watford and Bournemouth deserve their success. But personally I am sorry to see Bournemouth go up without a ground worthy of the Premiership. They have bank-rolled their rise more than people may realise but with a 3rd division ground.
Surely the criteria for becoming a Premiership club should include a minimum requirement of at least a 20,000 stadium, and all four sides permanently covered.
Just for the record, with my earlier comment I wasn’t meaning to nag or suggest how the site should be run. Just curious as to whether any comments ever got blocked and making a suggestion.
Keith (38) good point on the stadium size. Current capacity at Vicarage Road is 19,920, so that should disqualify them by your sensible suggestion. Not that they’ve managed to fill it in their promotion-winning season (14th highest average attendance at 16,374 – below Charlton).
Where are all the irate Bournemouth fans on here?
Ben (38) – I emailed you a response.
At the end of the day teams that accumulate the most points over the course of the season & that finish within the top two whilst conforming to the league rules/regulations get promoted, you can pick apart squads, look at statistics and scrutinize who they beat and who they didn’t all you like, who cares what the capacity of the stadiums are or the average attendance, fact of the matter is Watford ARE promoted and Bournemouth (far short of an absolute disaster) will be promoted also. Personally I would channel this energy into getting behind your team heading into the play-offs and stop worrying about things you cannot change.
No ones club has a right to be in the premier league, it’s earned!
Good luck with whoever you come up against in the play-offs
Cosmo – FACT – The official capacity of Vicarage Road is actually just short of 22000 now the new stand is open. I agree we haven’t filled it though – that’s because the club sell a lot of season season tickets at really cheap prices so casual fans buy them and some don’t always turn up. We also lose a few seats due to segregation. I have often been amazed at you attendances, for the relative success you’ve had they’re fantastic. But I suppose you aren’t within a 15-20 mile radius of Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea etc so no competition really is there?.
@34 Dan – This article does not set out to “have a pop at Watford.” It’s mainly factual, and, leaving aside the debate as to the actual percentage of overseas players you have, is hardly contentious.
I suspect that what’s irked Watford fans the most, is the fact that the author has expressed a personal preference in relation to the way the two promoted teams have conducted their business. That’s hardly a crime is it.
Both Russell, plus numerous Norwich fans, have pointed out that your promotion is deserving and wish your team luck. In contrast, you and numerous other Watford fans have “wished us play off failure.”
Personally, I think your “ambition over sentiment” quote is misguided. After all, in case it’s escaped your notice, we’ve just had three seasons in the Premier League and despite it being completely different to the Championship, we’re equally desperate to get back at the first attempt.
The clubs have different owners and different ideas, although the same ambitions.
If you’re easily offended by an article such as this, just wait until the Match of the Day pundits get stuck into your club. Mark my word, it will happen soon rather than later.
@44 Gary – Unless it’s escaped your notice we’ve had a couple of seasons in the Premier league ourselves, albeit years apart and most recently 8 years ago! – So we’re completely aware of the smug snipes of Lineker and Shearer etc that will be coming our way! What I wasn’t expecting was pathetic remarks about us being a 2 man team and others quibbling about the size of our ground and attendances. Anyway – On the Ball City! to Wembley I hope and beyond! Good Luck!
Rob(42) – us Norwich fans are not completely delusional. Points as Brucie used to say mean prizes, but if that’s all we talked about, it would be very dull. It’s way more interesting to go ‘under the skin’ and see where we fell short and you didn’t. If you don’t learn from mistakes, you’re doomed to repeat them.
Harefield(43) – I stand corrected. It’s still not a ground capacity to boast about although I take your point on what else is available in the area. Be interesting to see if Mr. Pozzo hikes up the season ticket prices for your PL ride.
Gary(44) – well said. Bit like the Mourinho debate. Yes he’s a winner but the way him/his team go about it leaves a bitter taste.
@44 Gary – Not really. Russell makes a point of only wishing Bournemouth good luck next season. “*Consequently* I genuinely wish them good luck and best wishes.” His choice fair enough, but that’s why Watford fans have responded. And the response is mixed, see @2 Steve “Regardless, I wish you all the best for the rest of the season and may the best team with the playoffs”.
You are right that Xenophobia aside, the post is hardly contentious. A low bar you’re setting yourself isn’t it?
Russell’s comments do taste a little bit like sour grapes (Nigel Farage would probably give you a like). Watford and Bournemouth entered the same competition that we did and gained automatic promotion on merit. The world is shrinking and the nationality of Watford’s owners does not diminish their achievement in coming out on top in what is a real test of stamina and application.
Cosmo P – The majority of our fans have taken the opportunity to renew season tickets before the early-bird April deadline which means no significant price rises this year but it will be interesting to see what happens if we manage to stay up next season.Going back to attendances etc I imagine it’s probably a bit strange for fans of a club that is relatively isolated like Norwich to understand the competition for suppport in the Watford area – I imagine most football fans in Norwich support Norwich!. Our closeness to London means it’s not unusual for many to attend games at all the big London clubs and turn up at our place when they can’t get tickets. – There are even many QPR fans living in the Watford area! So we’re up against it a bit! Having said that I’d rather die than support Spurs or Arsenal so we’ll stand proud among the big boys! This has been a good debate but time to go and again – Good Luck against the Tractor Boys or whoever you get!
@45 Harefield Hornet – It hadn’t escaped my notice at all, hence my previous general question in the final paragraph of my earlier posting @30 above.
Are the remarks (which are not mine) any less pathetic than the “hope you lose to Ipswich” from your fellow fans?
Your ground capacity is what it is, ditto your attendance. Even our capacity, at just under 27,000, is relativity small for the Premier League. It just another factor makes surviving in the Premier League even more difficult when competing with other teams.
I agree, the “two man team” comment is equally pathetic. Some clearly have a different idea on what’s banter and what’s not.
Thanks to everyone for contributing to a cracking day’s debate. I’ve just finished spitting out the pips from those sour grapes that some have insisted shoving in my mouth.
Clearly, the piece was written for Norwich fans to read. The fact that so many Watford fans have found their way here is great although some of your comments do my opinions a disservice. I do wish your team the best in a harsh, harsh division. Having experienced the grind of PL struggle recently, us Norwich fans fully appreciate how exciting the Championship is in comparison. Enjoy the good times because next season will be a grind for you.
Just be grateful that Luis Suarez is no longer around to make you suffer.
Blimey – I hope Russ is on commission for the number of comments he can attract!
Coming fresh to this after a day away, the debate seems to me to pretty well encapsulate the world of football fans. Russell’s piece gave credit to Watford as well as Bournemouth, but it probably felt lukewarm to Watford fans who are understandably still on a cloud of euphoria.
Their reaction is a mix of the thoughtful and the arrogant – probably just as it would be if roles were reversed. Some fair challenge to the stats, and good points about the community feel that Watford has tried to engender and which outsiders don’t tend to notice. But some of Russell’s points remain valid, and we do have much to be proud of at Norwich too.
The two automatically promoted teams deserve it, and I wish them both well. I hope we join them, and am saddened to see the ill-will from some – just a few – commenters. Norwich (and Russell) deserve a little better than that.
“Personally, I think it’s sad that the first ‘English’ Championship team to cross the line are owned by Italians, managed by a Serb – their fourth manager of the season – and whose playing squad has just a 25 per cent British feel to it. And that figure is only likely to drop as they attempt to strengthen for the bigger challenges to come.”
Author just needs to get with the times – this paragraph is just sour grapes, start to finish.
Football. Has. Changed.
Change with it (if you get the chance) or stick with ye olden days, but don’t begrudge other teams success, if you had better players and a better team, you could quite as easily yourself been promoted.
Football is about money and success, not grass roots or any sentimental tosh like that anymore. Get with the times, or continue to berate those who do better than yourselves. Seriously, the more I read that paragraph over and over, it’s whining tone can only be compared with a teenage girl who can’t afford a One Direction concert ticket.
Dan (53) Let it go fella. Made the mistake of thinking that you were mellowing throughout the day!
Can we all at least keep the name calling civilised please.
“25 per cent British *feel*”
Two of our foreigners here for you Russell:
http://mobile.watfordfc.com/cms_galleryimages/150314-get-well-soon-moo-banner-4×3286-2338184_478x359.jpg
Watford fans have stronger connection to their club and players then they have had since Graham Taylor’s days. They all *feel* 100 per cent Yellow. And the right shade 😉
Good luck in the playoffs. I like Norwich and the way it’s run.
Cosmo P.
“Current capacity at Vicarage Road is 19,920, so that should disqualify them by your sensible suggestion. Not that they’ve managed to fill it in their promotion-winning season (14th highest average attendance at 16,374 – below Charlton).”
We’ve only had three stands until what, December? We were averaging around 14,000 on a 15k capacity and then around 18,500 on a 20k capacity so you can’t take that average seriously. I believe the intention is to extend to 23k by the end of next season.
I’d rather be filling a small stadium than sitting in a 40% empty New Den or Riverside.
P.S. I’ve never felt a stronger connection to any Watford FC player or team than I do now.
They opted to celebrate in town (and on the dance floor!) with the fans on Saturday when most would have probably gone to a private club.
Dan(53)- it’s my opinion. In the spirit of the title for the piece, “je ne regrette rien.”
One Direction – never heard of them. I’m more of an Elton John fan – especially his 80’s period..
Ed (55) and Dave (57): fair comments, well made with justified pride.
Reading them can only make us wish you well (especially if you wish the same for us).
Whilst I can completely accept that looking at the Watford setup from the outside it might seem like a sellout, I grew up near the Watford ground in a part of town that during my childhood had (and still has) a massive population of Italians.They aren’t foreigners to me
We haven’t sold out AT ALL. I have been going since 1972 and to be honest I’ve never felt as much a part of the club. Every decision being made at our club at the moment is a good one
Let’s face it the two best footballing sides got promoted which is only a good thing.
Norwich played a hard ball pressing physical game and came unstuck.
@60 Nick Wilson – you’re right in one respect, Watford didn’t “sell out” to the current owners, they simply acquired because you were in a bit of a mess, largely through errors of financial mismanagement under the previous regime.
Whatever misgivings outsiders may have in relation to your current owners, there is no doubt that they’re genuine football people.
Refreshing to read the comments about my club, AFC Bournemouth, against the spite and bitterness of the Watford fans who cannot stand that our achievement from the basement of the Football League has received huge media coverage compared to them. We allegedly are bankrolled by a Russian billionaire with a team who had 8 players from Monday in our division 1 and 2 days. And 80% are British. And an English manager whose the fans can sing a chant.
City, we wish you well against the ‘hoof it’ Suffolk boys who play the ball in the stratosphere and a manager who when interviewed needs sub-titles.
And thank you for Andrew Surman.
One word for all of you: omerta. Our owners know where the bones are buried because they buried them …
(60) – do the owners live locally? Or even pay taxes in this country?
(61) – not sure I was watching the same side as you.
(63) – “allegedly bankrolled..” – I think it’s pretty common knowledge.
Surman – you’re welcome but he’s not PL standard. We’ve found that out already.
(64) – you’re scaring me now.
For the record, lowest %UK squads are Watford – 28.6, Fulham – 45.5 and Reading – 46.2 (average for the Champ. is 60.5%). Norwich are 61.8%.
65 – Russell.
In reply:
(60) Does it even matter? People pay taxes where they incur them. Anyhow, the owners do live locally…
(64) Where are you getting that info from? Do you mean UK (doesn’t include NI), GB (the 4 home nations) or the British Isles (includes the Rep of Ireland)? I make it 35%, 41% and 51%.
Not that it matters as the all the non-Watford born players have bought into the community, the town and the club.
Identity is strong, squad is strong, finances are strong, supporters / club / team / manager relationship is strong, infrastructure is strong. These are the good old days.
Steve(66) – welcome back!
To you it doesn’t matter where the owners live and pay taxes – to me it lies at the heart of where football has, and is going wrong in this country. I’m not a UKIP voter but someone alarmed at some of the trends which have taken over the game. If that makes me a dinosaur, then so be it.
I did say UK – which does include NI last time I looked! My source is Wikipedia – notoriously unreliable I know but the squad on there shows 8/28 UK players (players out on loan clearly not relevant). Again, this may not bother you (and you can always say it doesn’t matter as we got promoted) but it’s a bone of contention(clearly) with me for the same reason as before. It would still be if it was my club.
I’ve just read this piece on your team with one of your fans giving his thoughts on this season and next. Under the section titled ‘what was the key to Watford’s promotion’ he claims, “..few opponents had the wit to overcome or react to our changes in shape.” Maybe you should remind him of the team’s results against the other top 10 sides.
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/race-for-the-premier-league/who-are-the-premier-league-new-boys–your-guide-to-watford-fc-113302804.html
Tax issue doesn’t matter to me and, as I said, they are tax resident here anyway.
It would be 9 players then (Doyley is born in the UK and has lived in the UK all his life. Holds dual nationality and Wiki shows the country they can play for.) So 32%.
Also, a bit naughty not to include the Rep of Ireland players too, which whilst definitely from a foreign country, most British football fans would give them special exception not to included in the Carlos Kickabout foreigners category. So 43%
Matt is spot on in his article. Few teams could over come it in Joka’s reign once he imposed his style. The second half of the season in the last 22 (with one to play) we’ve got 50 points. Against the top 8 in that period, we’ve W2 D2 L3. Of those, one we lost as we had a defender red carded after 26 secs (which was rescinded). One was an injury time sucker punch as we gambled. The other, we deserved to lose (Norwich) as we fell apart after the dive for the penalty.
Still, as a neutral for the other positions, I’m hoping for a Norfolk Suffolk derby final for the added spice and tension!
P.S. It’s the UK & NI… 🙂
Steve(68) – at the risk of flogging a dead horse..
The UK is England, Scotland, Wales and NI- the ROI is a separate state. I applied the same ‘rule’ to all the squads.
“Carlos Kickabout foreigners category” – no idea what that means. We have some excellent foreign players at the club – just not the numbers you have.
2/7 wins from the top 8 on your latest run – that’s 28.5% For the full season, you’ve had 5/18 wins against top 10 – 27.8%. That’s not much of a difference.
We too have a list of excuses/reasons for dropping points in key games but that really is flogging…
Funnily enough, we’d rather meet the sworn enemy in the semi-final to take the one-off lottery factor out of it.
Ultimately, it matters little, given the Premier League’s “soft” definition for the “home grown” rule.