We knew that there would be days like this back in the Premier League. It doesn’t make it any easier to digest when it happens though, especially when the pain and anguish comes courtesy of a table-bottoming side.
Is it a coincidence that our worst displays of the season have both come on long away trips on a Sunday? That’s three such fixtures already. Although the draw at Anfield was welcomed positively, I didn’t think we played that well and were a bit lucky not to get a pasting.
The fact that it all unfolded live on TV of course was typical.
But hats off to Newcastle for the win – fully deserved. That said, in many respects it was a fluke – six efforts on target and six goals – a very rare conversion rate. One player scoring four goals in a match – even rarer.
Norwich also gave them a massive helping hand with tactical naivety from the top and individual clangers all over the pitch.
Before kick-off, I feared a reaction from Newcastle after their own six-goal shellacking at the Etihad.
That match was spookily similar to what unfolded for us on Sunday – very competitive and open game, but riddled with defensive errors and a world class display of finishing from one individual on the opposition’s side.
Post-match, Alex Neil’s face did carry a bit of an unfamiliar and uncomfortable bearing – not ‘bulldog chewing a wasp’ territory but certainly a bit less colour in his cheeks than normal.
It must be the heaviest defeat of his managerial career and clearly would have been a dagger to his professional pride. But all the best managers have suffered that kind of mauling at some stage. It was only a matter of time for him.
Thankfully, unlike the endlessly moaning Mourinho or whinging Wenger, he didn’t pass the buck onto officials, the media and Uncle Tom Cobley. Despite being a bitter pill, he was honest enough to know that the fault was with himself and his players.
Mixed in with the shock at the score line must have been some personal embarrassment at one or two uncharacteristic tactical errors by himself, from which I have no doubt he will learn.
Back to back defeats is an unwelcome and brand new sensation for our track-suited leader.
Our defence was poor undeniably (cue the usual mass online hysteria afterwards), but the whole team gave a talented and very expensively assembled Geordie foreign legion far too much space to play their football on the sacred turf of St James’ Park.
That said, on the hour City were in charge, close to an equaliser and you could sense the anxiety of the Geordie faithful from 250-odd miles away.
Neil’s decision to go for it by swapping Alex Tettey for Wes was a brave one with half an hour still to go but ultimately it was a blunder as Newcastle, once more, found the time and space to recapture the momentum.
It did bring to mind the gung-ho accusations of early last season when Neil Adams had the “as long as we score more than the opposition” philosophy. That was quickly exposed then and is even more of a dangerous game to be playing when the quality and stakes are so much greater in the top tier.
Yet considering what’s been achieved in less than a year by Team Neil, I think us fans have to give him due slack as he learns his trade at the highest level and, lest we forget, still at such a young age.
We can be sure that he will adapt his thinking accordingly. At least, you’d hope so with Arsenal and Man City looming on the immediate horizon.
Unlike many, I don’t subscribe to the wholesale changes panic reaction to such a hammering. Tweaking for sure is in order, but for me it’s up to essentially the same personnel to dig in, work hard and show that they can handle the big time.
On the electronic terraces, it’s going to be another week of expert armchair tacticians and ‘told you so’ merchants – plus ca change.
OK, I know it’s many of the same faces who got mullered at Man City and lashed at Liverpool in the Hughton years. We may not have the strongest defence in the league but until any future transfer window machinations, we have to back and not barrack individuals.
Despite the shock of being on the wrong end of a spanking such as on Sunday, it’s a time for cool heads and no tantrums behind the scenes.
With lessons to be learnt this week, it’s worth pointing out that after their hammering in Manchester, Steve McClaren did not make wholesale changes to his defence and kept faith in those responsible.
I’d say that the Newcastle boss and players have shown the right way to respond to adversity in the maelstrom of fan meltdown.
I expect Alex Neil and his boys to do likewise on Saturday.
Russ – whilst, like yourself, I don’t expect wholesale changes on Saturday, I think you’ve been far too generous to the defence.
Some of our defending was shocking.
Ball watching from Bassong, Russ letting his man run off his shoulder during a counter attack, not tracking his man, Whittaker nowhere near close enough to his man and getting so easily out jumped and an overall lack of awareness of events unfolding before them on the pitch.
Irrespective of whether Alex got it wrong taking off Tettey, you still expect your defenders, even in three versus three situations, to do the basics so much better than they often did.
This has to be worked on and learned quickly, otherwise Alex needs to be ruthless with his response. And, this should include, if necessary, dropping his captain.
No one should be considered undropable, especially in a League as ruthless as the Premier League.
However much fans demand change, the fact is that at the back, until midfield or up front, we simply don’t have any strength in depth. So there cannot be wholesale change, so all true fans need to wholeheartedly back and verbally support the players we have and not damage their confidence further.
I agree with Gary (1) on this – the defence was worse than dreadful on Sunday. To concede 6 goals against Man City as Newcastle did is one thing but to concede 6 against a side without a win all season is quite another, Newcastle are genuine relegation candidates as we will probably find out next week when they play Sunderland and to be pulled apart so easily by them was a serious wake-up call.
I am struggling to remember a game where Wes came on and made an impact – all his best performances happen when he starts it seems to me – and he should start every game in my opinion. Howson seems to be hitting a bad patch at the moment and Dorrens is a steady player but hardly the type to turn a game round so there are options to be left out to change things around a bit. It is to be hoped that Bennett at last finds some fitness and Wisdom must surely be looked at seriously now.
Impressed with the honesty of AN after the game and looking forward to a response next week.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see Ryan Bennett or Andre Wisdom introduced against WBA, whether at the expense of Bassong or Whittaker I’m not sure.
I agree nobody is undroppable, but wholesale changes rarely work – look what often happens when we put a disjointed team out in the Cup games against technically inferior opposition.
Neil has been very unlucky with Mulumbu – how many times do new signings seem to get crocked almost immediately? The sooner we have his energy in the middle of the park the better.
It’s always easy to berate a defence, because the last thing fans see when the opposition score is a back four player failing to cut it out.
But so often it is as much the fault of the midfield non-trackers or even the front men for giving the ball away carelessly. Tettey was not particularly effective under Hughton and I don’t get the impression he’s doing much better this time. He looks to me as much a good Championship player as Bradley Johnson is.
Newcastle may have been bottom of the table, but we all know that they have a much better squad than that, at least technically, and that however much people like to hang on to the “wally with a brolly” image McLaren is a pretty accomplished manager.
What he has though appears to be a squad of individuals rather than team-players, a mix of cultures and attitudes, and a lack grit. Are they up for a long slog through the winter? Who knows, but by the time the FA Cup comes round if they can avoid an early trip to the likes of a freezing Turf Moor or equally-up-for-it St Mary’s they must have a chance.
Cheers for the comments.
Newcastle (and their manager) are much better than their current position reflects. They drew at Old Trafford and outplayed Chelsea and Man. City in the respective first halves. It was only a matter of time before they put it together over a full game, even though for an hour we were toe-to-toe with them and contributed to our own downfall.
I think Alex is a fast learner and won’t repeat the tactical errors of Sunday.
Dropping the Captain is a risky ploy for moral – exhibit one being Mourinho’s handling of Terry. It’s probably time to give Bennett a turn at CB and move Martin to RB. I think the Brady/Jarvis combination on the left is the best one. While Wes is in a purple patch, it’s madness not to start with him home or away. The rest of the midfield have had a couple of poor games lately but been very good previously. Mbokani/Redmond did enough for me to start against the Baggies.
Slipping into Alex’s skin, my line up for Saturday would be;
Ruddy, Martin, Bennett, Bassong, Brady, Jarvis, Howson, Tettey/Mulumbu, Redmond, Hoolahan, Mbokani (4-3-2-1)
..but what do I know?!
..as for Man City away..
Sunday was the strangest of games. Newcastle 6 goals from 6 attempts on target, we twice hit a post and a penalty denied. We just became far to exposed to the counter attack against quality individuals. AN had a bad day tactics wise we need to be hard to beat first & foremost. We looked like getting an equaliser at 2-3 and had most of possession,Wes is fun to watch but we were already controlling the game and we’ve seen countless times how exposed we can be when we go on all out attack.
AN will have learnt a lesson pleased it happened in October not March, there’s time to sort it.
By the way it may have been 6-2 but game was much closer than score line suggests.
Some of the comments on here are bemusing. I bet the very same people wanted numerous player changes under Hughton, they didn’t happen and we failed miserably (I’m pretty sure you all won’t have forgotten?!). Obviously, we shouldn’t change every player, but a wake up call is needed…players that believe they are shoe ins need to be dropped. It’s farcical to suggest big changes aren’t required, if losing 6-2 to the poorest team in the league with a terrible goal record to date isn’t the time to make strong changes, when is? It simply sends the wrong message. If I was a squad player, I for one, would want to know these woeful results would lead to me being given an opportunity. Otherwise, as I say, we are in Hughton territory (an unhappy squad who know they won’t play even if the first 11 lose disgracefully to the worst team in the league). Let’s make no mistake, Newcastle are a disjointed, dreadful side who are still likely to be relegated, and we just got utterly spanked by them. The obvious sells itself, esp as Neil has said since his appointment, “If you don’t do your job, you will not play the following week.” Now he must deliver that mantra or risk a very unhappy squad and I would totally understand why.
A game that was crying out for Bradley Johnson. His sale for ‘non-footballing’ reasons has still not been fully explained.
AN must now start getting ruthless, otherwise we’ll get relegated.
Toad(7) – I’d be prepared to wager you a tenner that Newcastle will be well above the relegation zone by Christmas. They’ve had a tough start in terms of fixtures (4 of the nominal top 6 sides) and only their defeat to Watford was a real calamity.
Although the score line was similar to some of the Hughton dark days, the attacking performance on Sunday was not. It was much improved. Not much good if you let 6 in the other end of course. I don’t think anyone thinks they are undroppable, especially under Neil.
Other than Mulumbu, I wouldn’t say there’s better to come in – that reflects on the quality/depth of the squad but that’s an issue which has to wait until January. What’s the point of (still) bleating about it now?
In the pre-season forecasts some of us offered in August, I said Alex Neil’s approach would see us OK, but with a few tonkings along the way. Just didn’t think it would be at Newcastle…
Many good points already made. My twopenneth would be:
. People remember the troubles of England managers (McLaren and his brolly being a classic example) while forgetting that they got the job by being very effective club managers
. Four of Newcastle’s goals were scored by a midfielder. Yes, our defenders didn’t distinguish themselves – but where was the help from Dorrans, Howson, Redmond and Brady? The key reason we lost was our set-up.
. Alex Neil is proud, and above all a learner and winner. I expect a positive reaction.
@10 Stewart – was our set up any different at Newcastle from normal?
Apart from taking off a defensive midfield player for Wes (and we’d already conceded three goals by then) nothing was substantially different.
A bad result for us as I hoped you would get a draw or a win which keeps Newcastle at the bottom.
Still at least you have some easier games coming up according to some of your posters. If you had just sat in with players back you could have picked them off. Their defence is as bad as yours.
You made them look like Real Madrid. I bet the Wally with the brolly as Russell described him pre-match could not believe his luck!
Mick (12) – ‘us’ = Watford? We came unstuck on Sunday by trying to be adventurous. Not an accusation that could be aimed at Watford this season.
For all your clean sheets, you’re only 1 point better off and a GD of just 2 better.
Still just 1 goal in 5 home games! When is it season ticket refund time?
If you check more closely my previous article, the word ‘wally’ was not used.
Mick (12) – Yes, we got it wrong on Sunday.
When Watford get it wrong, you’ll probably know it without our gloating over (and mis-quoting) you.
Gary (11) – I don’t believe we’ve played that particular midfield four before. And their lack of tracking back – surely from tactics, not just laziness – was very different to what we’ve seen in other games. I don’t think we’ll see it again.
I can’t believe we let Chelsea go above us this weekend!
I would imagine Gary Holt has got some serious fitness training lined up for them this week. We’re one of the worst teams in the league, that’s just a fact, so there will be poor performances, but there’s no excuse at all for JOGGING back when we’re getting counterattacked. That was truly shocking, and must be dealt with swiftly.
There were a few positives. Mbokani looks promising, Brady continues to impress, and Olsson was good going forward at least. I agree, back rather than barrack on Saturday. It’s at times like this your club needs you most.
Trying to be adventurous, more like clueless from what I and millions of others saw in your capitulation on live telly again this season!
So I take it that “King Alex” will still play this way of trying to outscore other prem teams to win games then, just to please believers like Russell and Stuart that this could possibly work?. I think not and this will make your claims then seem ridiculous Russell as your manager back tracks on his earlier tactics.
Mick (17) – You’re incredibly chirpy and confident! Ever heard the phrase ‘keeping your powder dry’?
Mick (17). I assume your ‘Stuart’ was me, Stewart. Careless as ever with your details.
One of the (many) things we love about Alex Neil is his ability to learn and adapt. Never more clearly illustrated than in the play-off final against Boro, who’d stifled and beaten us a month before.
No, I don’t think you’ll see Alex repeating the set-up he used on Sunday. His approach will remain positive, but he’s smarter than you give him credit for. Watch more closely, and I think you may see it too.
Cheers
Mick (17) – you’re remarkable chipper, considering we’re just about a quarter of the way through the season.
Mock all you like at this stage of the season, but experience tells me that, just when you think you’ve got this Premier League malarkey all sussed, it has a nasty habit of biting you back in spades.
Mick(17) – it’s not King Alex, it’s Sir Alex.
Us Canaries were also chipper to start with under Chris Hughton when we were keeping clean sheets and taking more points than Watford currently are in the PL.
The dearth of goals and entertainment quickly turned the tide against him as it will Senor Flores unless he attempts to get his lads playing something resembling football at home. Our man has shown himself to be very adaptable – not sure your man has it in his locker.
Unlike the Hornets, we want to be entertained in our seats.
You caught Newcastle on a bad day as we did with Sunderland. After 9 games, you may have won the points battle (just) but the war is just starting..
Stewart, I do apologise. How could I forgot you and your name!
Not confident or cocky, just stating facts from what we all saw on Sunday. Same players that got you relegated as I said in the summer. To see them give up after the fourth went in was not at all a surprise to me but picked up by the national media this time. I saw it at Southampton earlier this season and expected it again but not against Newcastle.
Caught Newcastle on a bad day Cosmo? What about all the other teams that have beaten them as well? In the end the scoreline flattered Newcastle so do not think we were lucky. They were bottom and the fact you made a lot of chances throughout the game tells me they were there for the taking except your manager and players were found wanting.
Thought you would be 4-5 points above us considering your rather kind start to the season. If you do not get three points on Saturday you will be in the bottom three by the time you come to the Vic.
This is all getting a little tiresome Mick (22). Feels like we’re offering you a platform to take pot-shots. May I suggest you return to your fellow Hornets where you can indulge in one massive self-congratulatory cuddle. Enjoy.
Have had to listen to some of your posters taking pot-shots at us all summer with some of it complete rubbish and some making valid points.
Debate is always welcomed by me and I criticise my own club as well.
Now your manager and results are letting me give a bit back and the people who were having a go in the summer and including this weekend look foolish now. If you can’t take it when its justified then do not give it out!
Mick (24) – I think we’ll leave it there.
Thanks for visiting.
Gary (25) – This may sound strange from me, but I hope you’re just concluding this exchange rather than barring Mick completely.
Mick’s contributions this week would test the patience of a saint, and he’s clearly not well up (yet) on Hubris and Nemesis. But he does add some grit to the oyster, and there’s no denying that one or two of our number have taken pot-shots at Watford.
I might even see if I can get together with him for a drink on Dec 5.
Gary (25) Let Mick have his moments of fun. That one place, one more point and superior goal difference clearly gives him grounds for confidence with just under a quarter of the season gone.
Thankfully, there are still 29 games to go and much can change between now and next May.
Contrived or not, I’m quite liking this rivalry we’re brewing up with Watford. After all, it’s gonna be a long wait to meet our rivals from Suffolk in the big league.