Let’s just deal with this first: I want Alex Neil to leave Norwich City Football Club.
It’s nothing personal. I just think he’s a poor manager.
He’s had more than enough time to prove otherwise. By keeping him as long as we have it’s allowed a disappointing campaign to drift into a more alarming situation altogether.
And the overwhelming swell of opinion amongst our fan base – and the local media – seems to agree with my view.
I would sack him today. Well, actually, I’d have sacked him in December, but we are where we are.
Given the horrendous runs of results, pathetic capitulations, a chronic lack of leadership, defensive inability and limited tactical knowhow over the course of both this season and much of the previous, it seems an obvious shout, doesn’t it?
But the board do not see it as we do.
I was one of those who accepted Neil probably deserved a chance to right the wrongs of last season.
To learn lessons from a disastrous but revealing season; to spruce up a capable and experienced squad with younger blood; to ‘do a Burnley’ and stick by the man who got us up last time – in the hope history would repeat itself.
I was wrong.
When the fans hear Neil speak we hear painful repetition, excuses and the blame game. When the board hear Neil speak they hear honesty, reasoning and constructive criticism.
Perhaps we should get Nigel Pearson on the phone to shout, ‘You are an ostrich’ repeatedly at Delia and Michael until it registers.
I honestly believe the board are content with Alex Neil remaining manager and he will be here at the start of next season – everything points towards that scenario.
Our owners see him as the long-term gaffer.
For them it’s the players who are at fault and as most of them will be gone soon Neil should be given time to rebuild. The fans just don’t see the bigger picture. We are just a bunch of moaners who don’t understand.
And yes, I do believe our players should shoulder a huge amount of the blame because they have been awful at times this season.
Sometimes their talent is great enough to dispatch weaker teams without exacerbating themselves. But that attitude won’t wash week in, week out, in the roughest of tough divisions.
Attitude stems from the manager. I’d wager not one of our players would run through a brick wall for him and for this many players – many internationals – to down tools, so regularly, suggests that he is a major problem himself.
Some players have undoubtedly deteriorated in ability, possibly due to age, but most are still very assured players at this level.
They are HIS players. He has spent around £50million since arriving at the club. FIFTY MILLION! He has had many windows to make changes to the squad.
Ok, he has recouped nearly £40million but is that really the point? He has spent (and generally wasted) the most money a Norwich City manager has ever had. His hands certainly haven’t been tied in a hugely detrimental way.
You’re kidding me if you think Alex Pritchard – a real coup of a signing – wouldn’t have played almost every game at promotion-likely Brighton this year. He barely gets a game here. Why?
The gulf in resources between ourselves and the likes of Rotherham, Burton, Barnsley, Preston and Ipswich is staggering. The first four all beat us while ‘them down the road’ secured an unbeaten year against us for the first time in donkeys (appropriate word) years.
Our club – currently CEO-less – is rudderless and completely unambitious on the face of it.
I’d have no issues with the concept of having a long-term manager who faced the odd struggle from time to time if I saw any inkling that he had the ability to get players to play above themselves, was canny in the transfer market and tactically astute.
He ticks none of those boxes.
With swathes of first-team players out of contract, managerial uncertainty, boardroom instability and just one remaining year of parachute payments in the bag, the summer of 2017 will prove to be a watershed moment for the club. The most important transfer window for years – possibly ever.
Get it right and this season can be viewed as a blip. Get it wrong and… well, you don’t need me to spell it out for you.
But do I trust those currently at the helm to make the necessary changes required to navigate these troubled waters? Or will we sink faster than you can say ‘sinking ship’?
Do I heck trust them.
I have little-to-no faith in the owners, management team, recruitment team, nor half of the players on our books.
The club has been run in a seemingly amateurish manner during the last 20 years – only broken by the Bowkett and McNally years. It seems we are back where we started.
But just for today, I’m going to give the board and our Scottish manager the benefit of the doubt and assume they know what they’re doing!
Bear with me.
Let’s say we stick with Neil in charge next season. Sure, sacking the manager would give everyone a lift, but it wouldn’t solve the majority of our problems anyway.
So what can we address in order to transform our fortunes – and his – and get the whole club back on track and pulling in the same direction?
Here, in my opinion, is what we should try:
1] Let nephew Tom take the reins immediately. A controversial view, given his allegiance to the current incumbents, but having spoken to a number of people who have met him recently, I must say I’ve had 100 per cent positive feedback.
He seems a driven young man, ambitious and switched on. All three of those characteristics put him ahead of our current owners and would offer freshness in the boardroom – something we desperately require.
Who knows, he may even be open to looking for investment. The ‘Stowmarket Two’ don’t seem to be.
2] Hire a Director of Football (DoF). Again, not everyone’s cup of tea but given this scenario sees Neil maintain his position, an experienced football head could be useful.
It would also provide stability and allow Steve Stone to be the CEO and concentrate solely on the finances – let the DoF concentrate of football matters alongside the manager.
Money is going to be tighter than it has been in many a year. We need to be clever in the transfer market and invest in getting the correct staff in place off the pitch too.
Arguably more money needs to be spent on the staffing infrastructure behind the scenes than on transfers.
Savings on overpaid players who rarely play will help financially. However, selling a Timm Klose or even a Jonny Howson [wipes away a tear] could fund the whole rebuild and may be a necessity. If so, so be it.
Be ruthless.
3] Sack the recruitment team. Yes, even Ricky Martin, despite his blatant, err, talent for, err… and for the love of god, please don’t then make HIM Director of Football! Get rid – he’s failed.
4] Poach scouting personnel from lower down the pyramid with experience of success. Ignore the top flight for signings for now – that approach is too expensive and full of jeopardy.
5] Define a philosophy for the recruitment team and manager to progress towards. We currently have no identity and sign players willy nilly. There is no structure to our recruitment.
We sign ‘number 10s’ like they’re going out of fashion and then have one left-back on loan. The squad should be balanced and a DoF would help with this.
6] Set out a project with a timeframe, even if it may take three to four years, to build a younger team built from academy players and lower league prospects, who have the will and desire to better themselves and therefore the club too.
It may not give instant results and requires patience from supporters but at least there’d be a set target, rather than the current drift into obscurity and would give fans something to cling on to as well as hold the club to account for.
7] Get a decent bloody fitness coach. Alex Neil might not think it’s a problem but I can see it with my own eyes, and given all the statistics also suggest we fall apart near the end of games, it’s time to act.
8] Let the following players who are out of contract leave: Ruddy, Bassong, Bennett, Mulumbu, Turner, Lafferty and Whittaker. Some good servants in there – and some less so – but none of them are our future and all are on wages not befitting their ability or worth to the club.
9] And, finally, give some of our younger players a chance this season. The Bristol City game was a perfect opportunity to sprinkle a couple of new faces into the fray and see how they get on.
Instead we get Sebastian Bassong back from the Bermuda Triangle or wherever he’s been hiding while Alex Pritchard and James Maddison sit twiddling their thumbs.
One measly shot on target away to a team who’d won 1 in 17 does not offer much hope of a turnaround. These players simply don’t want to play for this manager.
.
We are a whopping 21 points off our pre-season goal of automatic promotion. We are 9 points off our minimum requirement of 6th place. We’ve conceded more goals than two of the three teams currently residing in the relegation spots.
Before the culmination of this torrid season we have to play more teams currently placed in the top half of the table than any other club in the Championship, and you don’t need me to remind you how poor our record against those sides has been.
So… I tried to be positive but this isn’t going to get better while Alex Neil is in charge, is it?
Whether you agree with my ideas for the future or not, we urgently need to start making changes, so let’s get the ball rolling and let’s prepare for the future.
As the window is closed, the most productive thing we can do right now is replace the manager.
RIGHT NOW.
Let a new man assess the situation so they have the full summer to sort it out.
But it won’t happen.
Urgh. Back to the negativity then!
__________________________________________________________________________
PS. For those wondering after my previous article – yes – I did renew my season ticket.
And yes… I’m a mug.
I agree with this very much. Clearly the board are sticking with Neil. Equally clearly something needs to be done- that must focus on the playing squad and the back room. So I agree with the nine point plan, at least it offers something positive.
As for players I would like to see several others go. Naismith tops my list- an amazingly expensive flops. I’m not sure Klose wants to be here, if he does then keep him, if not he should go. I’m not at all sure Russ Martin still has the legs for it. At any rate Jonny Howson should be captain.
Next season will be our last with the finances to compete. We have to get it right- that means preparing for it now, stop having any pretence there is hope in this season. There isn’t.
It’s no secret that change is needed. The issue (as you point out) is that they people we rely upon to make the changes are people we don’t trust after countless failures in a number of crucial areas. For that reason, perhaps you’re first point is realistically our best hope – who would have thought that a few months ago
You’re putting things forward that should have happened 3 seasons ago (if the board had any nous). Wont happen, & you renewing with this knowledge is…I can’t even bring myself to use the correct cockophony of words. Tom can’t look for investment unless it means selling. The two aren’t exclusive, so if he has the ambition you speak of, he will sell ’cause the club can’t progress without mucho pesos.
Renewing and just accepting Neil will be in charge is pathetic at best. Once again, sleep walking into the dark days. ‘Delia won’t sack because she’s given him a myopic release clause, so let’s just tolerate it’. What on earth is going on? Why do you complain about the situation and do nothing to resolve it? Its upsetting. Jeff has officially resigned from this surreal non progressive debate.
I should perhaps clarify that there are many players who could and perhaps should leave – but I only mention those whose deals run out as we know for certain we can get rid of those players.
4) See ya then
A very good article that I too agree with.
The fitness issue disturbs me particularly. That isn’t a financial issue and there is no excuse for the apparent lethargy displayed by far too many of our players.
As James says, I can see it with my own eyes.
Yes, I’m a mug too.
I’m despressed, so depressed with all things Norwich City right now, well done on not just moaning about AN and some constructive ideas.
I’m going Saturday like I went on Tuesday and i’m hoping we lose, i’m hoping a Carrow Road backlash might be the one thing our owners listen to.
Despite a wobble I renewed my season ticket but I’m giving up on this season (like the board have) and as long as AN is in charge my seat will be empty for the rest of this season after Saturday.
#neilout
Really excellent piece.
I’m not as convinced as some that AN will be retained. But many of these actions are vital, whether he’s here or not.
A rare bright spot is that Jonny Howson seems happy here. He’s the obvious captain going forward; let’s build a new team around him.
Though it seems at odds with the evidence, I’m not sure the team lacks physical fitness. I reckon the problems we see towards the end of games are mental – all part of the chronic lack of resilience and spirit that have sadly characterised this season.
Je suis avec le Jeff!
Get out of are club Neil you couldn’t run a bath! Why oh why oh why dont Delai see what is happening? Huh? Our club is disgenerating in front of are eyes!
Neil is the right man to take us through the summer transfer window. In fact James, you’ve lifted some quotes from my postings. Well done you.
You do appear to have written the bleedin obvious with a touch of me me me written all over it.
Get used to AN being here. He’s the guy to rebuild. That’s what he was hired to do. Pritchard had made 16 appearances by the way (“barely gets a game?” Err, wrong). Drop Hoolahan and you’d be peeing your pants. Just choose selective points to criticise.
Maybe not renew and give us all a break from the constant moaning week in week out since December. I can see the bigger picture, why can’t you?
9) Mental frailness is a recurring problem with these players.
12) Glad you enjoyed it so much Tommy! My post was about being constructive and making positive changes that could help Alex. You may have glossed over that bit…
If anything summed up just how happy Norwich supporters are to clap along and accept what Delia and the board give us, this is the article. Supporters like this sum up little old Norwich.
Don’t forget, we are just ‘moaners’! All is rosy in Delia’s eyes. She is happy as she doesn’t want those nasty millions from the PL. She is happy as her pet can be here for 10 years. She is happy as there isn’t a billionaire Norwich supporter living within 0.1 mile of Carrow Road that she can sell to.
I have zero trust in the board now. And it pains me to say that after how close to admin in L1
Although I’m as cross as most about the current first team’s abject performances, Tommy gets it. Too many are ignoring obvious plus points to the regime: Ben Godfrey, James Maddison, Pritch, Ebou Adams, Dialling Jaiyesimi – both from non-league and scored against Newcastle u23s – someone on the recruiting side knows their onions!
Then there is the ace in the hole: Glenn Middleton – built like a young Rooney with skill and speed – he was recruited from Northampton Town as a kid. Again, someone on the recruitment side deserves a medal.
Don’t lets throw the baby away with the bath water…hold your nerve and watch this transition period morph into success. Fresh pants please!
Alot of people that are unhappy with the present situation (understandably). And foresee the immediate and long term future of this club destined to be one of doom if things don’t drastically change. Why then renew your season ticket? Despite the passion you may have for your club and if you really feel that a major change has to be implemented for the future. Then surely the most effective and logical step to take would be to not renew your season ticket and no longer go to the matches. If the board genuinely care as much as it has been claimed they will have to react. If do not then people can make of it what they will but it will be quite obvious that the writing has been on the wall for this club all along and it will only be a matter of time. So why not risk it then? Boycott the rest of this season.
Let’s have a bit of perspective. Earlier in the season Mr Gowers et al were writing in praise of AN, his team and his abilities.
Now he’s suddenly the worst manager the club’s had and should have been sacked season’s ago.
You can coach all you like (and I’m sure they do) but you can’t legislate for players failing to mark their man or strikers missing sitters.
The Lambert years were successful not because they had a great defence (statistically they didn’t) but because they had a striker who put away the easy ones.
For what it’s worth, I back the club in giving AN time. Chris Hughton (promotion with Newcastle, odds on with Brighton) is clearly a good manager, but he was pushed out to keep the moaners happy. Maybe a long term perspective is worth a try this time.
Off to my foxhole now to duck the bullets….
No need for a foxhole Steve (19) – Fair comment. I did indeed sing AN’s praises as we made our way to the top of the league. No reason not to. Alas things have gone downhill since and Alex has struggled to turns things around. As his flaws have been revealed my opinion on whether he was the future of this club changed. Simple as that.
Step 2 should be hire a full time CEO with a winning mentality and a vision and back them.
Then make sure the manager buys in. If not, sack the manager.
17) Some valid points Nick but my pants are clean, I can assure you.
Give Tom a chance?! There’s the problem…I’d wager many fans understand how NCFC SHOULD operate & function a damn site better than wee Tom and I would wager the majority of fans understand football a helluva site better.
We are seemingly run by a bunch of people with no knowledge of the game.
Finally isn’t about time someone also questioned the role Ricky Martin plays at the club…Technical Head?
Toxic from top to bottom. Most fans would love a complete overhaul from Chairman, Directors, Coaching staff to several players and I would suggest the club are on the verge of losing several thousand of their most important commodity…the fans. Act before it’s all too late.
19) People’s opinions often alter based on the evidence they gain over time. As I mentioned in the article, I was happy to see Neil given this season in the hope of ‘doing a Burnley’. He has failed – badly. And the evidence continues to stack up against him remaining in charge. If he does stay, then things around him will need to change, otherwise we will drift.
23) I assume you know Tom personally then? I have given my reasons based on what I’ve been told by a number of people who have met him recently. They were all impressed – massively impressed. Doesn’t mean he could run the football club of course, but it does appear that will be his calling one day anyway, so why not now?
Tommy12
Are you for real? Tell me why you think he should stay? Why you see no problem with the situation?
It seems no one is happy with AN as manager except the board and until that changes he stays, All the moaning and demonstrations will not change the boards opinions it could be they don’t want to make a judgement call like the Chris H one.
He might have taken city down but the odds were that he could have got promotion(just like AN did) he could also have built a strong sude that just might have kept us up last season, AN didn’t and is paying for it now.
If by a miracle the teams luck changed (big if) and we got into the play offs and promoted would you trust him to consolidate city in the prem I for one wouldn’t, miracles don’t happen twice sack him now and go for Warburton.
Good one James! We mugs must stick together.
Delia may recognise a moaner but she sure doesn’t recognise a decent footballer,manager,or knows what motivates the mugs (fans,sorry,).
Trouble is , Neil is on a sinecure here. He can do no wrong in her eyes ,and if he selected a penguin at centre back he’d probably get 2 more years on his contract.This I could accept if I thought his tactical awareness and coaching abilities would get the best out of the next generation but what evidence is there that this will be the case?
As I’ve said before,if nephew Tom has something to say which is going to give us hope,why doesn’t he break his silence?
I despair.
Yes! Do it all. Do it Now! We MUST see some of the younger faces in every game from this point. These will form the backbone for the years to come – assuming they don’t just give up and eventually leave in disillusionment first…
9 Stuart – Some players who seem to be happy to stay (and that we want to keep, such as Howson) may soon be less keen to remain here if they have any ambition and think the Club has little chance of being in the promotion mix next season.
I think the strength of fan’s feeling will only be recognized and acted upon by the Board if and when season ticket sales plummet.
Totally agree with your points.
As you have stated the owners of this club have illustrated over the last 20 years their inability to steer the football club away from the rocks without the help of hard headed business types.
Love them or loath them if you wish to succeed or indeed just maintain the equilibrium, these type of people are required if you are incapable of making the hard decisions yourself.
I’m afraid our present owners and board don’t have this amongst their ranks anymore.
Their recruit and retain policy seems to be based on a personality based matrix which is centred on the fact if they like and get on with them. That’s a good quality if you’re choosing drinking buddies or someone to go on holiday with. But in in running and owning a football club it’s naive.
This is also born out in their well documented distain for all
things PL.
if they wish to continue their Chardonnay and clapathon Saturday afternoons they need to get someone in who has knowledge of the snake pit of football and get down and dirty on their behalf, as clearly they can’t do that.
After all It’s show business, not show friends, you would have thought they’d know that..
Tom Smith our future,18 months ago he would had to google us to know where we are . The owners have been here to long ,the manager has been here to long and most of the players have been here to long. Russel Martin worst captain I’ve seen in nearly fifty years of watching city ,should have never kicked another ball for us after his back pass against Liverpool last season.Six transfer windows to get rid of Larfty Bassong Turner . As for Toms enthusiasam ,if I was a tea boy from the city of London about to be given a multi million pound toy I’d be cocker hoot
Not often I read something that totally reflects my views as much as your fine article does. A very good reasoned argument.
Andy #32: Fair for you to judge Russell Martin, having actually seen him in action.
I suspect the same isn’t true for you in respect of Tom Smith.
pab #30: Fair comment. Jonny does seem happy with life in Norfolk (thank goodness) but you’re undoubtedly right. Action is urgent
Interesting nine point plan! I feel its somewhat flawed however. A CEO usually focuses on running the business as a whole rather than just financials – this would be the role of the FD, who in most organisations would then report in to the CEO along with other departmental directors.
The need for a good CEO is obvious however. The right man should resolve most of the issues you mention, however I suspect the shareholders will only appoint someone who is going to be fully on-board with their vision for the club, and that includes their backing of AN.
What you appear to be proposing is a complete change of key staff from top to bottom in one fell swoop. That’s fine in itself, although it would probably be doomed to failure. Not many organisations would survive such drastic change – it would become a bigger mess than what we’ve already witnessed this season.
What I’d like to ask is, does anyone here, columnists and posters alike, ever attend the AGM? If so why was a vote of confidence given to every board member when all supporters seem quite obviously dissatisfied with them?
@34 Stewart Lewis
Most of us don’t see the board in action, making decisions. We do see the results. We can say that Thomas Smith’s resume on the board at the end of the season would read.
– Joined
– Loses CEO
– Failed 2016 goals (avoid relegation)
– Hired CEO not fit for purpose
– Loses said CEO
– Failed 2017 goals (promotion)
It’s not a great start.
Dave B #37: As a newly-appointed director (who wasn’t even there for most of the 2015-16 season, by the way), it would be expected for Tom to take some time to settle in before throwing his weight around. Especially as he’s a junior member of the owning family.
Over time – in particular as-and-when he’s given a bigger role – I’d expect him to make an impact. Having met him, I expect that impact to be positive and professional.
Neil being kept in his job is an absolute disgrace and the majority shareholders are to blame. The thought of him being here in the summer ‘to rebuild’ in beyond comprehension. He has not earned that right and would of been sacked by any other board in football, but the sheer recklessness and naivety of the board a taking the club down the pan.
The club does not want to get promoted as there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. This is very slowly starting to sink in with some fans.
Disgrace, shambles, inept, blah. The simple fact is we need a leader at the club. A proper one. AN would have had the support he needed had McNally not disappeared up his own wormhole. Instead, AN had to become the only leader at the club. He has failed. His fault? Not really. He’s made bad decisions – increasingly – but how is someone so inexperienced supposed to learn and get better if he has no support and mentoring? Delia and Michael are not leaders so there’s no point in blaming them for not leading. But they are to blame for not being decisive.
You can only make a gamble on a rookie if you have a structure to support it. McNally destroyed that structure whether it was his doing or not. Therefore we have no leaders in the boardroom, none in the dressing room. We’re screwed.
#36 Jonny: I’m fully entitled to attend the AGM as a minor shareholder, but choose not to as I feel I could not contribute anything and do not really feel comfortable in that environment anyway. I went once in the Roeder era and would not personally care to repeat the experience.
I am sure some fellow columnists and many MFW posters do attend the AGM – maybe they can answer your question better than I can.
Stewart, his title isn’t “junior board member”. Why is Norwich City the training ground for any would-be sporting professional.
Dave B #42: Listening and watching before diving in – clearly Tom’s style – is not treating the Boardroom as a training ground. It’s acting as a smart leader.
I expect him to be more proactive from now on, and more effective for not having gone in with hob-nail boots.
Tommy and Nick, quick thanks, going to work it made my morning to know there are still fans out there with perspective and without the nascent sense of entitlement amongst some “supporters”.
So, just to check, based on no known success at being a board member, or sporting success in any capacity, you fully expect him to be a successful board member. Despite nothing but failures while he’s been with us?
Isn’t that the kind of blind faith that has consistently failed us at Norwich? Hiring people at levels or roles they’ve never performed at?
In recent years – Bryan Gunn, Neil Adams, Peter Grant, and arguably Alex Neil in the management hot-spot.
And make no mistake about it, this isn’t personal, but there’s not a single team in this league, or many divisions below, that would have a Tom as a board member.
Can you honestly say otherwise?
Dave B #45: Others may have their views, but I’d say it’s a bit premature to judge Tom as a Board member.
You want, for instance, to lay the 2016 relegation at his door – despite the fact that most of the season was over before he even joined the Board. Seems to me unfair and (frankly) stupid.
My view is based on his record in other jobs requiring executive leadership and judgement, and my meeting with him. Seems to me that may be a stronger basis for judgement than yours.
I feel we are being duped by Norwich City. Us fans want promotion, the board want consolidation. Notably, the board have not come out thus far to defend their stance of non action.
The increasingly suffering Archant’s Michael Bailey is getting it with his article this morning in that the club are happy where they are. I’m in total agreement with him.
All supporters of the club old and new have to look at themselves in the mirror and ask the question ‘Do they want to support a club whose ‘aspirations’ – and I’ll use that word advisedly – do not match their own.’
Thanks corbs. Of course things could have been done differently, and better. But everything in life is not black or white. It seems that the majority of keyboard warriors can see NO redeeming features in the current regime. There are some!
NB I forgot to mention the unfortunate Louis Thompson – after his early years at Swindon, and recognised by Jacob when he was on loan there as a future star, has had horrendous injuries. I note many pundits have his name pencilled in for 2017-8 as number one pick for DM. I’m hopeful but these injury filled seasons might mean a longer road back….
44) If its ‘self entitlement’ to want to see 100% effort from our players – something that the manager should, at the very least, get from them – then yes, I’m self entitled.
Dave, don’t forget to add Bryan Hamilton to the list of shame. Incompetent managers run through the clubs timeline for twenty years. Of course being a mere “supporter” we have no right to opine on that.
Andy #32 – the sad thing is the tea boy from the City of London would have more business experience than Tom.
I’ve known of cases where someone who’s going to inherit ownership of a business is first sent to work on the shop floor of the business or out somewhere into the big bad world of business to get their hands dirty before they’re given the keys to the executive toilets.
Tom, on the other hand, has had a cushy job as a public servant (ok maybe not cushy, but it’s not business), gone straight in at Board level, and now might be put in charge. It’s bonkers.
But it’s ok, in the non executive chairman we have someone with a wealth of business experience who can advise our young management team. Oh wait, we have Ed Balls, whose only experience is academic or political.
Well someone somewhere must be listening because they have just sacked Alex Neil……..
“My view is based on his record in other jobs requiring executive leadership and judgement, and my meeting with him. Seems to me that may be a stronger basis for judgement than yours.”
That’s nice. I’ve worked on strategies for companies with larger revenues than Norwich City and I’m a decent photographer too. Should I be a board member?
I wonder how many of these ideas come to fruition? Classless timing from the board to dismiss him a couple of hours after giving a presser where he talked about his plans for next season – but the main thing is the wheels have been set in motion and we can start planning now
Dave B #54: On the basis of your puerile contribution to this particular debate, showing nothing but ignorance of the man, his record and qualities: no, I wouldn’t have you on the board of my club.