On Thursday, I chaired an informative Q&A session after the Canaries Trust AGM at which Steve Stone and Stuart Webber spoke candidly about the Club’s financial position and transfer policy for the summer.
No issue was off limits and only the most dedicated miserabilist would refuse to acknowledge and praise the level of transparency that we are now seeing from the Club’s key decision makers.
While more of a blow by blow account will be available on our website (www.canariestrust.org), I wanted to expand upon some of the basic messages that came across because they should give quite a lot of reassurance to the majority of fans.
Since coming back from Australia I have read so many posts on social media from people who can’t imagine life without parachute payments (although four of last season’s Championship top six didn’t have them) and are convinced that the family silver will have to be sold in the summer.
Steve Stone painted a different picture (although, of course, he isn’t as credible as that bloke someone’s mate overheard down the pub…). While there is still juggling to be done, there is no endless downward spiral of the financial situation. The problem is that the Club is still paying Premier League wages to some players, but once these are off the books a sustainable equilibrium will be reached.
The sale of Alex Pritchard (which, as Webber went on record as saying a few weeks ago was forced by the player, rather than being an act of desperation by the Club) has helped the situation, and it was confirmed that the Club wouldn’t need to sell to start doing business in the summer (in fact, one, as yet unannounced, deal is apparently already done) but would have to in order to do everything it wants. There are very few clubs that buy but don’t sell in transfer windows.
James Maddison is, in my opinion, something of a red herring, because a player of his quality would be coveted whatever our financial situation, and whether we like it or not, we are a Championship club next season while he is destined for the very top.
Every player has his price and a pragmatic view (and I would stress this is purely my opinion and not based on anything said on Thursday evening) is that he will be snapped up at some point, so if the Club can get stupid money now which would allow the further development of the squad then surely that is good business practice?
Of course, Maddison has been integral to City’s successes this season, but that sort of dependency on a single player is not the way to build a team or progress as a club. After all, and heaven forbid, what if he got a career ending injury?
It was clear from Webber’s graphic description of Colney when he arrived (“the inmates were running the asylum”) and the struggles to bring about a culture change that there were many problems in pre-season that were not obvious to the fans.
His description of a move from “players thinking that Norwich City owed them something to making them understand that they owe Norwich City” suggested that there were ingrained attitudes that took time to eradicate. He also confirmed that the atmosphere among the playing and managerial staff is infinitely better and that that will provide the springboard for a much more effective preseason – particularly with so many staff and players having a Championship season under their belt.
What was also interesting was his description of the total overhaul of the scouting system, which has been the Club’s Achilles heel for so long, in particular the development of a European network, focussing on a few specific countries in order to gain specialist knowledge rather than trying to be “jacks of all trades”.
The idea behind this is both to seek out the best value, but also to be able to track prospective signings over a period of months rather than a handful of games in order to have the best chance of picking players who are best suited to the Club and English conditions.
Clearly, this guarantees nothing (Webber made the point that Paul Pogba hadn’t really made much of an impact at Manchester United so far despite being regarded as world-class and costing £89 million) but it is a massive step forward from the Club’s previous approach, and, with the upgrade of Colney and the securing of continued Category One status for the Academy, is likely to pay dividends in the future.
Overall, what came across to everyone who attended on Thursday was that the Club has a viable long-term plan in place which is being enacted by highly competent people, and that plan is firmly focused on a return to the Premier League.
This sounds like the fantasy league.
This year with Maddison, Gunn and part of the time Pritchard we managed mid table.
Next year without them and Delia’s cut price replacements we’ll be even farther behind the best teams in the championship.
We need to compete financially with the Wolves and Aston Villas of this league if we ever wish to get back to the premier league.
Should a miracle occure and against all odds we are promoted how will we compete when our owners have a parsimonious approach to unbeleivable good fortune.
As long as Delia remains in control this club is heading in one direction and it’s not the premiership!
I may have imagined it of course, but I think we spent 4 of the last season’s in the Premier League under these owners, or is your view that bad things are down to but good things are down to someone else?
You may also note that Millwall are 8th with no money and that Huddersfield went up last year on a shoestring.
It can be done but it needs good recruitment and the right structure both of which I believe we now have, and which came across strongly on Thursday. Such a shame you didn’t make the effort to come and hear it direct from the people who make the decisions.
It was good fortune rather than a developed plan that attained promotion to the premier league.
Every time the owners failed to find the necessary investment to establish us as a premiership club.
What is the current plan, in the unlikely event that we are promoted, to finance premiership survival?
Well Robin, if you want to be accurate, these owners drove us to near bankruptcy. One they realized they were out of their depth they brought in pros. Eventually we were led back to the PL, where through constant inaction the board led us back to Championship life.
The less involved our owners have been, the better off we’ve been. So my question is – what benefit are they to the club?
David I like your logic.
It’s not that easy to wave away doubts about owners who failed to invest to keep us up and have blown all their premier league money, relying on the fans to revamp the training ground.
Robin – as childish as a response as ever.
Look at the feedback. The vast majority are with John.
F but as youre stuck in this modern day media bubble I have no doubt they are all uneducated little Englanders who couldn’t muster a poignant point while wiping away all the froth from their mouths.
This is a new model and without investment from D, so comparisons to previous are not possible. You can’t have it both ways.
If it all goes wrong, I bet you will blame people like John F and I for not buying into it properly.
Ps. You deem success is going up back to where we were. I seem success as staying there for a prolonged period. Using comparisons to clubs that have done it on a shoestring will NEVER stay on the prem is more poor thinking on your part.
If you wanted to stay there, instead of using simply promotion as a smokescreen of success you would be man enough to admit this won’t achieve that.
There’s probably a place for sarcasm ..
Well said Robin;
I wondered how long it might be before someone pointed out that success in the Championship is not always down to the size of the respective owners wallets. I’ve been hugely impressed by Millwall this season (and say it quietly, Preston too) – and that’s something I never thought i would say in my 55 plus years of following City.
As long as Webber and Stone are here we do (for the first time since Lambert), at least seem to have a defined path forward. Yes, some of the football at The Carra this season has been pretty dire, but Webber always said it would take 4 or 5 transfer windows to get it sorted!
O T B C
Yawn
Your attitude seems remarkably similar to that pervading the club prior to Webber’s arrival.
if you spend your life awaiting a fairy godfather to arrive & splurge loads of cash on players (who may well turn to be as effective as Naismith & RvW) then you’re in for a lifetime of disappointment.
Th present philosophy, whether with this manager or not, is the only one for a club with modest resources to follow. We are not, & unlikely ever to be, a rich club. Deal with it.
Well according to Webber, we can all sod off and watch another club if we aren’t enthralled by the glowing football served up by farke and co.
Imagine 20,000 “miserablists” swelling the gate at Norwich United.
Glad handing the big cheeses at carrow road seems more important than the state of the club to some.
Thanks Robin. An interesting insight.
Re. John F’s comment, money is important but if, as is clear, we don’t have it you either give up or try a different tack. When we had PL money we didn’t spend it well and we’re paying the price for that now. The current approach is a more sustainable one for the long term, and l’m feeling pretty positive about the future.
Good article Robin.
Re the “red herring” that is James Maddison I would simply say this: when he goes for, say, £20 million we will have £2 million available from that sale to buy somebody with. Not a penny more. The rest disappears into Delia’s black hole to keep us afloat.
Wages are capped at four figures for new signings – who can we recruit?
I truly admire your stance in backing the Board in the way you do. Me? I’ll back the team on the pitch until my dying day but poor old SW has a job I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. He won’t stick around forever.
A very good read.
Stuart Webber was under no illusions when he took the job, and doesn’t seem to have quite the negative view of it that you do, Martin. He’s committed to Norwich for a number of reasons, not least that he’s being allowed to implement a proper, medium- term, plan.
Good point regarding the wage cap, which is rarely mentioned – if ever – outside this forum.
Thanks for the update Robin. Like you I believe that the change in culture had to come, contrary to popular opinion there just isn’t a queue of billionaires waiting outside in the club car park. It remains to be seen whether this plan for the club will come to fruition however things couldn’t carry on in the same vane. The legacy that Stuart Webber , Steve Stone and Daniel Farke have inherited was an appalling mess and members of the board are definitely culpable for that. However fair play to them they are brave enough to try a different approach and I hope that the majority of the fan base are both intelligent enough and have the patience to give things time to develop. There have been glimmers of hope this season and some of the away performances deserve great merit. As has been said the front end of the team needs bolstering and hopefully will be addressed in the close season. A final word on Madison, we have been extremely lucky to have had him at Norwich and should enjoy his performances whilst he is here. These type of players do not often come along and so when he inevitably leaves for greater things we should wish him well
When we were in the PL the happy clappers said “we don’t have the money to compete, we belong in The Championship.”. When we’re in The Championship the happy clappers say “we don’t need money to compete and we’re headed back to the Premiere League”.
The numbers don’t add up Robin. Go read the public yearly figures, chuck them in an excel sheet and try and figure out how to make this club sustainable. With them having to publish the actual figure, it’s a very real exercise.
Good luck.
Dave: perhaps you’re familiar with some Happy Clappers that I’m not, but I don’t recall hearing anyone say either of those things. Nice try with the straw man – but not this time.
“perhaps you’re familiar with some Happy Clappers that I’m not, but I don’t recall hearing anyone say either of those things”
Well…
“You may also note that Millwall are 8th with no money and that Huddersfield went up last year on a shoestring.” … Robin Sainty.
Overall a lot I agree with. Webber and Stone are good and enlightening, however, not everyone is able to hear the message so the notes from Thursday will be important. This should be part of the Trust increasing its presence as too many season ticket holders are not even aware of it. Much of the concern about the finances without parachute money is down to what happened a decade or so ago but I accept that was when we were paying for the South Stand. However, although we have good commercial income and strong turnstile income, the money left for wages will be less than now and although we have high earners not playing we have some that are and we have to work round that. The financial equilibrium seems to be on the assumption that we continue to have one of the highest turnstile incomes even if our league position does not match. 5 of last year’s top 6 were either funded by parachute income or subsidised by backers. Positives about the club, the scouting that found Zimmerman and Trybull, the negotiating that got Gunn and the coaching that developed Lewis and Maddison. The negative, the fact that the club is downsizing..
I will add that the issue with money is that there is too much of a gulf between PL and EFL income leading to a need for parachute money and the increase in billionaire backers in the EFL which causes an imbalance. This is not the fault of the club but is the environment we have to live in
There is so much negativity among many Norwich fans, with a real sense of entitlement that we somehow deserve to be in the Premier league. The championship is full of clubs, many of them undeniably ‘bigger’ than Norwich, who also feel the same. This new approach is already showing signs of steps in the right direction, and I, for one, feel it is definitely the way to be addressing the situation our club finds itself in. Unfortunately, modern life demands quick fixes and instant gratification, but we really all need to calm down and give the club our full backing and support – I am convinced that this approach will take us towards the place that we all want to get to.
John F your views are typical of a fantasy league dream that a shining knight with a silver wallet is the cure for all ill.
Money is a factor but not the only one. It’s a shame most fans can’t see past that and still believe that we would instantly compete with the super rich if we had money ourselves.
The fact is we’re a large but provincial club. We’re not on the map to those billionaires looking for a heritage toy. And even if we were it is not a panacea for success.
The approach being taken should be commended and while promotion is the ultimate judge of success what choice is there.
We plan, and get on with the job or wine with a deluded sense of entitlement like those down the road about what we don’t have. I prefer option a.
After twenty years Delia has taken us back to where she started, including near bankruptcy and division one football.
I don’t expect us to land a billionaire who’ll sort all our problems out but I think it’s time for new owners with a different vision.
Judging by yet another unacceptable performance at QPR today I’d say the plan Robin Sainty talks about does not look all that viable.
I’m a season ticket holder in the south stand and most of the fans around me are fed up with the current situation.
You only have to look at the numerous responses on this site to see that my views may well be held by the majority of supporters.
Just realised the date that this was posted!
Seriously though, surely the problem is with the tactics used rather than the players. Whilst I am an advocate of possession based football it needs to have a purpose. Currently our play is too slow and predictable. It is the same now as it was early in the summer and in terms of progression in this respect there has been none.
It is ok having a plan, but unless we are more aggressive in our style of play then I fear that we are in for a period of mediocrity. And then only then if we are lucky in our future recruitment, as nothing else will change.
I’ve only watched the Canaries once in the last few seasons (bristol city away last year) due to my matchday work commitments at a League 1 club. I can see both sides of the argument but throwing money and something doesn’t always work. There are enough clubs who have tried that approach and regretted it. In league 1 bury have spent huge amounts – rock bottom. Shrewsbury sensible budgeted amounts. It comes down to recruitment, quality of coaching and time. Fulham are a prime example. Give Farke time at least another 2 seasons. Knee jerk res took don’t work neither does throwing ludicrous amounts of cash about.
I the light of todays shocking debacle I’m beginning to think the current strategy can only lead to a spiral downwards to Division 1. To me the Weber/Farke experiment is papering over the fact that financially we are inadequate to compete in the Championship. This will continue to be the case until we have new owners that take seriously the aspirations of it’s fan base, not as are current owners do view as the basis of a social life. I’m giving it one more season as a season ticket holder. If the current boring dross being dished up does not improve it’ll be the last one for now.
Webber is only stating the obvious regarding Colney and it was like that for quite a while before he joined. The club were aware that Colney was a mess, but did nothing about it. As for Stone, he was hardly a shining diamond as FD. Was passed over for CEO that went to Moxey.
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the club are going for promotion. This is a downsizing exercise. Some of it necessary, but the club as a whole is all about consolidation. If the club wanted promotion – which they don’t – they would have not of employed Daniel Farke. It is almost like we are doing everything not to get promoted. Cheap players, a cheap manager, tedious, mind numbingly dull football that does not get results.
Finally, I think Webber’s comments on Radio Norfolk were a disgrace. To tell fans – who virtually sell out CR every week, support them around the country and even invest in the (morally reprehensible in my view) Bond Scheme, to ‘go and watch another team’ comes across as sheer arrogance and maybe, desperation from a man who has been given the keys to the Castle, but the moat is running dry. Blaming the fans for failure never works.
I’ve got no time for our majority shareholders, but if they want to want to earn some well needed Brownie points. sack Webber now. Delia will not be happy with those comments for sure, which one would assume she didn’t expect to deal with after Moxey’s brief tenure, but Stuart showed true colours and comes across as man who is placing himself above the club.
Webber needs to go. Now.
Agree with all of that.
Webbers comments regarding the Bolton game were insulting and inflammatory. Good business doesn’t attempt to harangue and denigrate its customer base, basically telling them that if they don’t like the shoddy product to pee off elsewhere. Indefensible.
McCarthy found that there’s only one winner when supporters take a dislike to you – and that’s ten thousand at Ipswich not 25 k here,
The distorted version of Stuart’s comments which appeared on social media certainly came across as insulting and inflammatory – which is why I suspect that “quote” may have been produced by an Ipswich fan.
What Stuart actually said was something quite different. While acknowledging the poor football that fans have had to put up with at Carrow Road this season, he cited the first half against Bolton as an exception – a brand of attacking football that he hopes we’ll see much more of. If fans don’t want that kind of football, he said, they should perhaps go elsewhere.
Not the greatest phraseology – but very different from the way it’s been portrayed, surely.
Ok Robin, I’ll bite.
Firstly, an initial disclaimer. I am not, to use your terminology, a “dedicated miserabilist”. I am actually very positive about Norwich City as a club. I think we have an incredible fanbase.
Whilst attendances are no longer a barometer for club spending power or influence, I still think they are the best bet we have over assessing relative size. Thus any club that pulls 25K+ in the third tier such as we did needs to be taken very seriously. A handful of clubs in this country can do that.
That is not to say I feel we are entitled to a certain level of success – I rarely expect us to win a game, if ever – but I do think Norwich as a club is often down-played in terms of size.
Onto the Canaries Trust. A so-called “voice” for the fans. Makes it sound like a pressure group, right? Keeping the club on its toes? Then why does it feel like the only time you get upset is when one of the bean-counters at Carrow Road doesn’t answer your emails? More often than not the trust’s communications feel like PR signed off by the club itself. This article is a case in point.
Are you really representing the fans or are you just trying to cosy up to the board like so many others have done? No wonder Delia seems inclined to carry on with this farce; with those around her seemingly complicit in encouraging such a forlorn pursuit.
It’s very simple: Delia can no longer afford to own a football club. That’s it. End of. She’s like one of those crazy people who buy a baby alligator because it’s cute, only not to have a clue what to do with it when it’s grown into a big, ugly beast.
It’s all about knowing when to leave the party. To say Delia has stayed on for one sherry too many is an understatement.
A “viable” plan you call it. That is how our leading fans’ group is describing a plan which is such a punt it would make an Andy Marshall goal kick look accurate?! A youth team that has never produced + foreign imports (gawd knows what the Brexit impact will be on their visa status as non-international players) = success.
Sorry, but to my mind it equals us being some over-sized version of Crewe knocking about in L1. No thanks. Not interested.
Three things Delia once promised:
* The club would never be majority-owned
* She would sell up if ever someone came in with serious money
* She didn’t want any of the money back she had invested in the club
Whatever. I get it. People say things in the heat of the moment.
However we got to this point, we are now in a situation where the board are going cap in hand to fans (again) to pay for capital projects, charging top whack ST prices, whilst also saying it is to be handed over to a nephew with zero experience and even less cash.
And you are sitting there as a fans’ group telling us to swallow it! Roy Blower you are not. Why does it feel like you are self-motivated rather than for the fans? Sorry to get a little bit personal but the last thing this board needs are fans’ groups helping them urinate in the fans’ bucket and telling is it’s raining. They do a good enough job of that themselves.
I ditched my season-ticket after the Times interview and won’t be coming back until she has gone. I suspect we will be in L1 before that happens.
The only viable plan is new ownership and Delia should stay true to her promise. Stick the club up for sale for a £1 (like her mate did at Wolves) and try to get the hell out of there.
I know you are a proper fan Robin please do not take offence.
OTBC.