Thankfully City’s attempt to sign David Turnbull didn’t reach saga level.
I’m pretty sure Stuart Webber would never let that occur, and we’ll never again – at least while he’s around – have summer-long fiascos akin to the successful pursuits of Robbie Brady or Gary Hooper and the unsurprisingly futile attempts to sign Toby Alderweireld, Ola Toivonen, Fabio Quagliarella and co.
My god, they were painful – even those that did come to fruition.
Also, in hindsight, it’s obvious that Turnbull was never destined for Norfolk, not really, even though he may (or may not) have tentatively headed south with his agent to hold talks. It was all just part of a canny game of poker.
To have turned down Celtic was a brave move in the first place as destination Parkhead appears the ultimate goal for those with talent north of the border – ahead of earning a place in the Scottish national team – but his apparent flirtation with Premier League and Championship teams appeared to have been just part of his agent’s masterplan.
Interestingly, it did, in the interim, see us yet again incur the wrath of Celtic fans who were aghast that anyone who’s on their radar should be linked with little old Norwich City.
Yet again, we were reminded how massive they are and how a move to Norfolk would be a retrograde step for the player who would almost certainly be blessed with medals, trophies and European football if he headed to Glasgow.
And, to be honest, they’re right. Now the move has gone through, they may as well award young Master Turnbull his Scottish Premiership winners medal 2019/20 when he signs his contract. Because they will win it, and probably the Scottish FA Cup and League Cup too.
In that regard, there’s no point in us going toe-to-toe with Celtic – a bit like when our friends down the road play the ‘major honours’ card. If we head down the number of trophies and “history” route, we’ll lose. Full stop.
Celtic’s roll of honour is thus:
- Scottish League titles – 50
- Scottish FA Cups – 39
- Scottish League Cups –18
- European Cups – 1
An impressive list in anyone’s book, in particular the last one, which was achieved by a 15-man squad of whom all but one were born within ten miles of Celtic Park. It was also the first time a British club had won the trophy. The Lisbon Lions will be forever lauded and remembered, and rightly so. They are indeed a group of heroes to be extremely proud of.
Our roll of honour, by contrast, is by our own admission rather less impressive:
- English League titles – 0
- English FA Cups – 0
- English League Cups – 2
- European Cups – 0
Yet, and we’re quite proud of this, we did participate in the 1993/94 UEFA Cup (one for the Ipswich fans), and we have our own, more modest, equivalent of the Lisbon Lions in the form of the 1959ers – heroic but beaten FA Cup semi-finalists.
I should also add, if we were to enter the Norfolk Senior Cup every season, I’m fairly confident we’d have more than 50 to our name by now, but if they’re going to slap us around with the actual number of trophies won, there’s only one winner.
And then we get to the always thorny subject of size.
Again, that Celtic are “massive” is not in question. They have, according to Wikipedia, a fanbase of nine million worldwide, which includes 160 supporters’ clubs across the globe. Apparently, when they played in the 2003 UEFA Cup final, no less than 80,000 fans descended on Seville. They have a stadium that holds 60,000+ supporters and their average gate last season was over 57,000. All that is irrefutable.
We, by contrast, have a stadium that holds 27,244 and last season averaged gates of just over 26,000. We describe ourselves as massive occasionally but we’re really not, especially when compared to the likes of Celtic or (sorry) Rangers, or any of the top six in the Premier League.
But, here’s the thing… on opening day of next season, the carrot-crunching upstarts play Liverpool at Anfield. And Celtic? At home to St Johnstone.
After Liverpool we have Newcastle, Chelsea, West Ham and Man City. Celtic have Motherwell, Hearts, Rangers and Hamilton – and while no-one is arguing over the intensity and stature of the Old Firm derby, these occur only four times a season, cup games notwithstanding.
So, of course, Celtic are a bigger, more decorated club than City – to argue otherwise is plain daft – and they do have an outside chance of making the group stages of the Champions League, but with us now in the Premier League, we surely win the arm-wrestle over whose domestic campaign offers up the greater challenge.
For players looking for to progress who have Hoops and Canaries as suitors, it’s really a question of first-team opportunity, medals and European football versus the prospect of playing on the biggest stage against the best players in the world on a weekly basis.
For this squabble to flicker into life every time the words Celtic and Norwich appear in the same transfer rumours article just gets a little tiring… especially when both clubs have much to be proud of, but are both, in different ways, limited by geography.
But anyway… good luck to David Turnbull – regular first-team football, trophies and probably an extra couple of Gs a week are clearly dear to him and his agent, and that’s fair enough.
As mentioned earlier, I suspect he was never destined to be a City player and always destined to be a Bhoy, but the bluster from north of the border that followed his initial refusal did at least serve as a sharp reminder of where we sit in football’s natural order.
But it wasn’t needed. We know our place ?
??? All the best to the Canaries for the season ahead.
From a Celtic fan
Thanks a lot from one of us Canaries – and there are several – who has followed (mostly from a distance, although I’ve been to Parkhead a few times) since 1967. HH.
I’m sure getting pumped every week must do wonders for a young player confidence, but I’m sure wages down there ease that. Lost count how many talented young players give up on reaching their potential, for a quick buck.
Being a Scot and Norwich city fan I have to say I think Turnbull has made a massive mistake. A promising young player( and god do Scotland need them) who could improve and learn by playing in the premiership against the best players in the world rather than 4 hard games against Rangers in a season , and it hurts me to say that !! . Farke would have educated and improved him as a player.
Fair play to the editor for a level headed article and good luck to Norwich in the EPL next season. Having read Arsenal fans utter disregard of a club like Celtic in their chase for Tierney it’s refreshing all EPL fans aren’t the same. Think Turnbull has made the right decision in the end. He will learn more playing under pressure to win every match than to be constantly in a relegation battle (no offence) were it may be harder to express himself and his attacking game.
Why I wonder you think Turball would be in a relegation? Had he joined Norwich City and had he been good enough he might have helped them win some silverware. Negative attitude! Some people.!!
It’s the easy choice. He can take it easy at Celtic playing the likes of St Johnstone and Hearts and co each week who are are the standard of League One teams in England. Only Rangers and Celtic could grace in a relegation battle in the Prem.
Yes at Norwich he would really have to work hard to get in the starting 11 and that isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.
As shown here .
Which is fair enough .
It looks like his agent was playing Norwich, obviously he hadn’t heard of Stuart Webber. Looking from an English perspective it looks as though Celtic just walk through the league and cup programmes and trophies are returned to the Celtic trophy room. When I am with my Celtic supporting relations it’s different perspective; Celtic are making history.
It has been rare, but not unique, for Celtic or the other lot to do the treble. Celtic have just completely 3 trebles on the trot-say what you like about Scottish football but that’s a brilliant achievement. Celtic are one of two teams to have won 9 consecutive titles, the fact that Celtic are going for 10 means that each game for the next 2 seasons will bring huge pressure.
No one pretends Scottish football is of the highest standard, but it does well for a country of 5m dominated by 2 clubs. Turnball will play more, win more trophies and could be part of history being made.
I don’t think he’s Norwich’s loss-we never had him and it’s arguable if we ever needed him. Besides Trybull and Turnbull in the same midfield would be too confusing for me at times of high pressure!
As a Glasgow-dwelling Canary, very nicely written, Gary. No muscle flexing needed here.
Methinks a lot of this hinges on the olde conundrum, regarding the size of fish and the pond it resides in?
I have to agree with the common thread – his agent playing ‘games’. The smutty side of football, this past twenty years. Honour in short supply?
I am happy to be educated, but when was the last time a truly great Scot appeared in the higher echelons of the game? Sure some very good ones have come through, but no one truly outstanding. No Gareth Bale for instance – Wales being less than half the population of Scotland . . . . Welsh league’s standard and all?????
In reply to TheCount? I think you’ll find in common parlance, Glasgow Scotland, being north, is referred to ‘up there’? Not being smart – it just sounds perverse?
Alan Hansen?
Makes a change for it to be a player showing no ambishun
Hi Gary.
A great article for a Sunday morning to read sitting in my garden up north in Blackpool.
Not to many City supporters in this neck of the wood but more than you can count follow Celtic and Rangers.
Some one said about the size of the pond you play in and bragging about 8 Titles in a row is so common place Juve are up for the same record but as with the Scottish League there is no competition.
Rangers are just trying to rebuild, and Aberdeen sell their best players to stay afloat as do Motherwell and all the other clubs in the league.
Celtic has had a Billionaire owner for a number of years all others including Rangers have had to struggle to servive Murray had 10 years if success at Rangers before his money ran out and Joe Lewis if Spurs sold his shares.
Turnbull may be a good player in Scotland and has made the simple choice stay and win at Celtic and be sure to play but he has missed out on trying to play against the best players each week to test his skills even Championship football would educate him, test him in a more challenging league.
His Manager missed the opportunity to play on the world stage and possibly get a move to a top 6 club in the Premiership.
Onwards and Upwards
OTBC
Talking of transfer saga’s………remember how long Alex Neil chased before getting Naismith over the line………how well that worked out.
He never wanted to be here, otherwise it would have been done sooner.
Pretty sure that type of transfer saga will never happen with Webber.
Biggest transfers that concern me is Webber and Farke leaving, in The meantime enjoy the ride!
Last year EPL teams won all three major European trophies including all EPL finals. The league has been won by three different teams in the last five years.
The SPL teams have won zero European trophies in recent history, struggling to move beyond the group stages. The SPL has been won by the same team for the last five year (and beyond).
Going to Celtic will ensure winning trophies, but I’m not sure any that are worth winning. At best it would be akin to Man City celebrating winning THe Championship, perhaps League One.
I think the Robbie Brady move turned into a saga . seemed to drag on perhaps I am wrong but it seemed like it now looking back
Great piece again Mr G… Turn Bull living up to his name.
Turn= around and went to where wanted all along. Agents playing a game that played out.
Bull = that he was interested in coming to Norfolk , never really interested.
I think we escaped a bullet in that one, I don’t know if there was any truth in that he wanted guarantee’s of having game time. No player should be given such guarantee like that.
That really showed his attitude, not one of a Band of Brothers as we have, but of being number one irrespective of anything and anyone. . I am glad we didn’t get near to getting him, we were used to get him into Celtic, yep he will no doubt have silverware and medals, but really and no disrespects to Celtic and their supporters, they do have an easier league than the English top two.
Not happened and never looked like it was genuine one. dust down move on. …Work to be be done at home with Power being tracked by Dortmund and Ajax after the recent tournament , Get the extended contract out and get him in the 1st team squad . If they see something then he is ready to have the experience.
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Hi Lad
Couldn’t agree more as you’ll see in my article on Tuesday (which I’d written and sent to Gary G before I read your post).
I used the dodging a bullet phrase too.
We only want them if they are willing to come here on a no-strings basis.
Guaranteed playing time within our squad? Not a hope.
As much as I admire and follow Celtic Turnbull was never for us.
Cheers.
I confess, somewhat surprised my earlier post, received zero replies – reaction?
No, please don’t get me wrong, no arrogance here, no. I merely thought I would see at least some reaction? Be it in agreement, or, sharply anti?
BTW. I remember seeing Terry Bly play for City . . . albeit – then a sprog! So . . . . . . . ?
A good article Gary. The whole affair was bizarre. Local media outlets flatly denied the assertions from north of the border that the deal was done and Turnbull was in Norwich tieing up the loose ends.
The fact that I felt no great disappointment upon hearing that Turnbull had kissed and made up with his detractors at Celtic and would not be signing for City. Celtic themselves have questioned Turnbulls attitude and his apparent subsequent dealings with us do him or his reputation no credit.
Looking at a striking department which currently consists of Pukki and Srbeny there appear more pressing concerns to be addressed. Indeed given the strength of our midfield department. During the run in to promotion neither Mario Vrancic or Moritz Leitner could get game time. Who in their right mind would swap either player for Turnbull?
If midfield invention is required get a new contract under Vrancic nose pronto, forget about Turnbull and divert precious funds into areas of relative weakness.
It’s highly likely that Turnbull would have found himself on loan in the championship, the smart money would be in Sheffield Wednesday as game time at Norwich would be scarce. Maybe this is why he opted to stay in Scotland.
Looking to the future in the transfer market has served us well in the last few years. It’s time to spend some money to benefit the present.
Good stuff, Gary.
Some might read it as rather downbeat or fatalistic – but it isn’t. We can well afford to miss out on a Turnbull. As the past 18 months have shown, Norwich can attract some bloody good players, ready to give their all for the shirt and their teammates.
We move on.