There have been warehouse-sized debates everywhere about Norwich City and their way “forward” with the finances of the club in regard to next season. And the inevitable happened. We are Championship. Quelle surprise.
This was a nailed-on from the start. No significant investment, key injuries to central defenders, and only Duda and Rupp in January. Talk about shouldering arms and accepting your pre-ordained fate.
I’ve really enjoyed reading the views of both regular and new MFW readers and commentators over the past few months or so – please forgive me for not mentioning you all individually by name.
However, although I’m no statto I’ve worked it out that our collective opinions have always been pretty much split down the middle.
Option A: I am a massive supporter of Delia and her Board and believe in their vision of the future. I know we must be self-financing and have to realise that there will be at least £30million in player sales every season and the academy has to provide saleable products. Quickly and regularly. Because of course if you invest in improving our academy this will happen by natural progression. How can we go wrong?
Large G&T’s all round. And a nice bottle of red. Or four.
Lump in the Premier League parachute payments, obligatory player sales, and us mugs who go to every game [when we’re allowed back] and that set-up is in place for a further five years courtesy of that strategy. Delia and co have another four to five years in the tank right now.
Option B: I do not like the Smith regime and I would willingly accept an alternative form of investment whichever source it might originate from. I don’t object to camels because I don’t make vaguely racist comments.
If somebody made me an offer I would take it seriously and after an elongated period of due diligence, I would then make an objective decision. Leicester City comes to mind.
However, could I back a consortium that conned me and causally meant we might end up as a Coventry or a Portsmouth – both on the up just now by the way.
Frightening, isn’t it?
Back to option A:
‘Are you happy with NCFC’s constant platitudes and wish to let matters continue as they are?’
Without being ageist – I’ve been reprimanded for that before – most who get the OAP discount would tick that box even if only because any spirit they ever had in the first place has evaporated by now.
Option B:
‘Do you admire the work of the Barclay End Norwich and Along Come Norwich in order to continue to get us off our feet with some very real cohesion?’
Yes, I do and it adds very much to the pre-match atmosphere would be my answer.
But something tells me the limited but generally much-appreciated efforts of ACN/BEN will be far less effective next season. It’s easy to ignite a crowd against Liverpool but – Rotherham?
So sitting at home because of problems none of you guys want to know about [okay, a calcified vein in my right thigh that will not go away without rest], I did not get to Carrow Road for the Leicester game. My neighbour Matt went in lieu of yours truly. Fittingly my last game of the season was against the mighty Liverpool.
This self-funding concept cannot and will not work.
What happens when we have a season with nobody to sell on at a profit?
And for all those hoping for megabucks for, say, half a dozen of our current squad, I hope nobody wants to buy them.
Because where would all the money go? Into Delia’s handbag, that’s where.
I’m not suggesting she keeps a single cent for herself. Of course I’m not.
But any which way while she’s at the helm, we are screwed.
It’s time to go my venerable lady. It really is.
Martin, for once I’m not in total agreement with you on something. Yes, I know I’m one of the OAPs you mention, but I’m not over-enthusiastic about a regime change. I’m not normally a pessimist, but in the event of D&M giving up control, I do worry about what we might get. Yes, Leicester managed it ok, but although you mention Coventry and Portsmouth being on the way up again, look at how long they’ve been down there, and how far they’ve still got to go. Pompey haven’t made it through the play-offs this year.
You don’t have to travel far from the Carra to find an example of an owner of a club who seems to have his own agenda, and who appears not to give a damn about the club and supporters. Other clubs who have been in the Premier League not so long ago have problems, Wigan in administration being a prime example.
Self sufficiency may not be the route to entry into the Champions League, but if bouncing between the Prem and the Championship keeps my club afloat, I can live with it. At least I do get the odd season of joy when we do go up.
Hope your health improves soon!
Hi Jim
My reference to older supporters specifically excludes yourself, Ed, Lad, Alex B and Gary G’s dad. You’ve all plainly still got plenty of spirit left in the tank. It would have been difficult to specify that in the article though!
I’m referring to some folks I don’t know who I’ve observed in the Upper Barclay tbh – I realised it was a controversial line after I’d posted it – too late by then.
As you so rightly say it’s a question of balance and no I would NOT want an Evans type character at our club either.
PS I’m on the OAP rate in 3 years myself if there’s still a ground we can all go to 🙂
Thanks as ever.
It’s slightly worrying that at the time of writing there are no comments on this article. This means that either you have had a long lie in Martin or everyone who has entered here has finally abandoned hope. I am beginning to wonder if it’s all worth it myself. How are the players expected to perform if the team receives next to no investment ? where ‘s the motivation going to come from when at the end of the day the conclusion is we tried hard, gave our best but were ultimately not good enough. Not much of a legacy to carry forward to the next season. Those players who are valued as better than Championship standard will understandably want to move on.
I would sooner have Delia at the helm than some exploitative conglomerate or worst still a regime of human rights abusers but there are clubs who seem to manage the equation better. As far as I am aware, Leicester do not fall into the category of questionable ethics nor Burnley [please correct me if I am wrong in this assumption] The thing is, if we are prepared to keep going back, circumstances allowing, it looks very doubtful that anything will change. Is it time to vote with our feet ? Thank you Martin for your grounding thoughts.
Long lie in? I was up at 0545 with the dogs as usual ffs :-).
Gary’s article appeared first and mine has turned up for the afternoon shift. It was actually written pre-Covid but we decided to wait quite a long while for a more appropriate time to publish it
Yes the human rights abuse question echoes around my empty skull as well and you’re absolutely right to mention it. Hence my point about elongated due diligence.
Your view on Leicester and indeed Burnley is quite correct to the best of my knowledge.
The trouble is that none of us [whatever our age] are seriously likely to vote with our feet as supporting City is akin to a form of addiction. And the Smiths know that.
Hope all is good with you in London – thanks.
Delia was very happy to take money from a betting company, because they paid the most money. We also don’t have too many qualms about where the money comes from when people purchase our players.
A very good point, well made.
Twice. Leo Vegas and then DafaBet.
Mind you, go find a football club without a betting Co. logo on the shirt. 🙁
You are of course correct about the need for investment but don’t let that cloud a proper review of the facts. Some of the recruitment has been woeful as have some of the managers selection / substitutions / tactics. I don’t advocate throwing the baby out with the bath water but Webber / Farke have to realize that their primary purpose is to WIN games. The players too have to realize we are not just a stepping stone to bigger clubs. Those who failed to keep us must stay to repair the damage.
Hi Cyprus
“Those who failed to keep us must stay to repair the damage” sounds great in theory but how often does that happen, hey?
If you were in a low-key Birmingham-based circuit band and asked to front Led Zeppelin by Jimmy Page wouldn’t you do it?
Robert Plant did just that – and took John Bonham with him btw.
With the rare modern exceptions of Holty, Flem, Adam Drury, Wes [after a spat] and Tetts [after a change of heart] ballers will go for the $$$ wherever it comes from.
It’s hard to focus on winning games when your job revolves around [whoops!] a conveyor belt. Cos that’s just how it is.
Good comment – thanks.
While the football authorities cannot stop what happened to Wigan, I’d be very wary of what you wish for. Investment capitalists want/need a return, no philanthropy involved; their right to sell on at will to whoever comes up with dosh.
Is that what you really want?
Hi Nick
You make a fair point as in we should be careful about what you or I might wish for as I heavily alluded to in the article. I basically agree with you for what it’s worth but…
If we ever got in dire straits [again] D&M don’t have the resources to bail us out – not even to Evans levels – and that surely has to be cause for concern.
Thanks once again.
I recently enjoyed Hamilton on Disney plus. A very enjoyable three hours. With the lyrics in mind, I can’t help believe a story of someone beating the odds is polar opposite to what we’ve witnessed. For example:
a) We did throw away our shot.
b) Every burden, every disadvantage we did not learn to manage.
c) Essentially Delia will tax us endlessly and will not set her club (descendants) free.
d) We were not young, scrappy, and hungry.
e) They did not promise to make us all proud.
f) We did not play infront of a crowd.
g) There will not be a revolution in this century.
D.Bow
Hi Dave
That’s an analogy I’m not 100% familiar with but I sure get the point.
Lyrically I can only proffer “If you love somebody set them free”.
That’s very difficult to do as Sting himself discovered after his split from Frances Tomelty. He did make megabucks out of “Every Breath You Take” though so he had some type of consolation in a slightly warped kind of way. And moved on with Trudie Styler of course.
You’ll have to do us one of your stats articles at the end of the season – I’m incapable of constructing them myself so love reading them, as I do the similar-but-very-different creations of Chris S.
Thanks a lot.
I always thought those lyrics made Sting seem a bit of a stalker.
Yes Jim – and Don’t Stand so Close to me was very pervy in it’s way, especially as it was written by an ex-schoolteacher.
Listen to the first 30 mins on Spotify / Prime/ YouTube. You’ll be Satisfied and You’ll Be Back (for more).
“You say, the price of the Premier is not a price I’m willing to pay”..
“But when push, comes to shove, I will send a season ticket bill charge to remind you of my love”…
Sounds interesting – I’ll have a listen, especially if it keeps on raining.
The only reference to football like that I can think of is Floyd’s “Money” as in “think I’ll buy me a football team”.
Hi Martin (Got it Right thus time)
An interesting take in both A and B options.
If city and the board what to make city self sufficient they why iver the years haven’t they expanded its capacity to increase the revenue, false economy saying it will cost £25m so we will revisit it in a couple of years then say it is £30m so again missed chances.
Smith’s in or out.
Personally I will thank them for all the efforts they have put into the club and all the good times that has been shared by all the supporter’s but like everything it has a time scale and theirs has really gone past the sell by date.
As with many I can remember the toxic atmosphere during the latter stages of tge Robert Chase era and hope never to see scenes like that again at city, in those days we gad a White Knight in Geoffrey Watling who came to the rescue sadly I can’t see anyone doing the same.
It must be hard to let go of something that you have controlled for such a long period but it is ego that takes over and you start to think you know best or could it be losing their last bit of celeb status by keeping hold of the club.
Living here in Blackpool over the years we have seen the protests against the Oystons and to a lesser extent the Blackburn ones against the chicken consortium, one won the other is still in power and stranded in the championship.
Today in the local paper KMPG have announced that they are inundated with groups wanting to buy the club and expect to have a short list of 12 next week, this is not a route that I would want city to go but with the Smith’s intransigence against investment it is something that could happen.
Blackpool similar in size to city had similar owners in that they wanted it to be self financing and came to a very bad ending but under KPMG had 5 multi million pound groups wanting to purchased it and yes it was a knock down price but now have by the looks a stable ownership and invester.
Norwich have lots for potential investers but you have to look for investment not put up the not wanted signs that the Smith’s continue to display and announce both in the papers and sky interviews.
They behave like spoilt children with a much loved toy but scared to let someone else play with it just in case they can get as much enjoyment out of it or even improve it.
They will be a few reading this and saying he is against the Smith’s and yes I am against their continued ownership and No I would like to see them leave with dignity and not be hounded out or put the club into administration.
Others will say it is a risk of the unknown but wasn’t it a similar risk when Watking sold the club to them all those years ago, could we get a rogue owner yes and then we could get someone that buys it for an investment and comes to enjoy city and wants to make it a successful club as you we gave to take a chance or stagnant into being Ispwich.
Hi Alex
The thought of stagnating a la Ipswich fill me full of horror but we must remember that not much over 10 years ago we were in very real danger of doing just that.
I respect David McNally for somehow fronting up the Smiths and managing to pull us away from that scenario with the not inconsiderable help of Paul Lambert.
Your Blackpool comparisons are interesting to say the least.
People tend to forget what Geoffrey Watling did for us back in the day which is shameful in many ways. I was much involved in the “Chase Out” campaign and felt the breath of a [Met – they were borrowed] horse on me more than once.
Yes of course you might be accused of being against the Smiths but so will I be for sure which is a price I’m prepared to pay. Don’t worry about it.
I don’t think of them as spoiled children exactly but feel that they should be nowhere near a position of complete control in a football club. Not OUR club anyway.
There’s nothing wrong with inoffensively stating what you believe in.
Keep good.
To (almost) paraphrase the Beat..
“I see no hope,
I see only sorrow,
I see no sign of a bright new tomorrow,
Stand down Delia, stand down please, stand down Delia.”
Hi Chris
S’funny how the musical references are lining up today once again and I didn’t even kick them off in the original article – for once.
I think UB40 have been carp for many, many moons but I love their first album, Signing Off, to death and still play most of it even now if I’m in the mood.
Sure it was written about Thatcher but the track Madam Medusa nevertheless reminds me of somebody else sometimes. As a “committed socialist” that person wouldn’t like me – or anybody else – making that connection.
It’s shower time so best I go meet the mirror in the bathroom.
Cheers.
Oh dear Martin. Much as I too wish for us to have a sustained period in the Prem and to be competitive I do feel that one magical ingredient is missing from your master plan, namely a suitable buyer. Or anyone with finances frankly. Unless you are suggesting that Delia and co are rejecting any sniff of interest and suppressing knowledge of it, then I don’t recall anyone showing interest in our little club for quite some time. We aren’t fashionable, we aren’t located in an exciting part of the country and we don’t have a rich history behind us. Few foreigners will have heard of us, yet alone want to invest vast sums. Until the time someone goes express an interest then it is pointless suggesting Delia and Michael relinquish control as who would they hand over to? At least our owners genuinely care about the club and aren’t just wanting to asset strip, or run to the hills when it all goes wrong because they aren’t really bothered.
As for the self sustaining thoughts, yes we do have to sell to survive but then isn’t that the case for most clubs to some degree – if it isn’t a case of having to sell, it is that they do so when players outgrow the club and an offer is made or they leave on a free. Even in the big clubs players will push through deals to whst they perceive to be an even bigger one, or at least a bigger pay cheque. I don’t think it foolish to look at the self funding model for moving forward, especially with the current lack of outside funding forthcoming, as at least we accept and recognise our situation and have made a plan to work with it. Better than burying our heads on the sand. And I take exception to the notion that the money from any sales of players goes into Delia’s handbag; rich our owners may not be (in footballing terms) but they have given a lot to the club and I don’t believe for one minute that they would want us to be poorer for it. There does appear to be a blinkered view with a great number of fans about where money goes from transfers, which avoids looking at ongoing expenses – ground maintenance, coaches, training equipment, staff wages, lighting etc. etc. It would be nice to have the money instantly available for transfers, and to forget the amount of wages a player may want too, but the reality of running a company is that it must be managed carefully and the money must be there for times when things go very wrong and not gambled all at once. The fans seem to want the owners to put all their money on one number of a roulette table at times, though I doubt they’d do the same with their own finances.
And before anyone accuses me of being a happy clapper, I too am frustrated but I’d rather we accept the current situation when there are no alternatives actually available. Let’s get behind the club instead of constantly moaning about those that control it. At least we have our own ground, unlike Coventry for all that they are supposedly on the up!
I don’t think anyone has suggested the Smith’s pocket any money coming into the club but the big qyestion is do they count themselves as employees and pay themselves a salary, it was rescently put out in the media that Levy works for ENIC which has the ownership of Spurs, he owns 10% of ENIC and takes a large salary.
Ut has been said Levy puts in 12/14 hours aday at the training ground and is involved in all aspects of the running ofvthe club so earns his money, Yes the smiths owns the club but does either do anything for the club to warrant a possible salary
Actually Alex there are more than a few eejits who do think D&M are on the rob. As I said to Laurence below I very much doubt there’s any truth in that.
Good for Levy but the last thing we need is a Smith anywhere near Colney!
Oh dear Laurence 🙂
I simply don’t have a master plan as you and I well know.
When you say: “Unless you are suggesting that Delia and co are rejecting any sniff of interest and suppressing knowledge of it” I might believe that but I don’t genuinely know if I’m right or wrong. They’re hardly going to drop round for a bottle of expensive vino with me and Mrs P to explain their mindset to us are they?
To be serious I understand exactly what you’re saying. It’s why I was at great pains to point out that I don’t believe Delia & MWJ take anything from the club for themselves apart from a considerable amount of bottled liquid which they thoroughly deserve in any case.
I know a few eejits out there do make accusations like that but I have never been one of them. My handbag reference refers purely to her wish to keep the Club’s trading balances healthy which in turn will perpetuate her dynasty.
Which ironically is the one thing I do not want.
Thanks for a very thought-provoking comment.
Big question Martin. Unless a Middle Eastern oil rich country decides to take a punt on Norwich then we will never be able to compete with the elite clubs in the premier league. That leaves the target competitive area as has been alluded too as somewhere between middle of the premier league and top half of championship. However the ambition should be aimed firmly at the upper end of that scale. The self sustaining model is unlikely to achieve that as it is still a tremendously wealthy area of football. So we either need a billionaire of good character who doesn’t mind chucking his or her fortune around without wanting much back or we need to self sustain but attract external investment maybe in the form of a funding package repayable over a long term such as most businesses use to finance change and growth. We’re we diiffer from other businesses is that the primary focus of a football club is not profit but success on the pitch.
Our club is in good but limited hands with Delia And Michael But it does offer the occasional season of top flight football, some cracking good seasons in the championship, the odd trip to a play off final and some head in the hands moments thinking what the hell are they doing. But it’s not dull anything but. Thousands of supporters turn up week in and week out so it’s not all bad.
Back to the original question Martin I think I’m an option A but could be persuaded by some of the opportunities in option b if the right person or people became interested.
Agreed. And you don’t become a rich business person by throwing money around. The filthy rich benefactor only exists in fairy tales. When will the perpetual critics wake up?
Hi Nick
I don’t believe in unicorns any more than you do but while most of us back Daniel and the squad to the hilt [you’ll rarely find a knocking comment on MFW and certainly not from our writers] some of us have had enough of the Smiths. They’ve been in situ a long, long time and there’s no end in sight.
It’s depressing to many of us.
Thanks.
Hi Andy
I really find it difficult to disagree with anything you’ve said.
Believe it or not I too would consider Delia & MFW as a safe pair of pair of hands but I just find it so frustrating because every time we’ve had a chance to establish ourselves in the PL they have failed us.
Dull? Course not! It never has been in my consecutive 30 years of a home ST, although I didn’t enjoy hardly anything about the Rioch/Hamilton/Grant/Roeder era if I’m honest. Still went to the games though – an addiction is exactly that: an addiction.
Much of my article was written as devil’s advocate as I’m sure you already appreciate.
Thanks a lot.
Very well put Martin and as you know from my previous comments on this site I concur with your assessment.
The self funding model does not provide for sufficient funding to be injected into the club when we are fortuitous enough to achieve promotion as we are currently witnessing.
The finance doesn’t have to be on an Aston Villa scale of £140 million but it does require £40 million as Sheffield United demonstrated. The lower figure I would argue keeps everybody on their toes rather than assuming success can be bought and taking their eye off the target.
The lower figure is beyond the capabilities of Delia. Not her fault but a fact.
The championship like all football is becoming more expensive year on year and will eventually become too expensive for our self funding plan in the same way as the premiership has become.
What happens to the model if we lose all our young valuable players? Nobody has so far has come forward with a convincing argument as to how they’ll be replaced in order that team strength is not weakened as a good part of any money raised will be needed to fund the functioning of the club, especially for any lengthy stay in the lower divisions.
If our only plan is to remain self funding and debt free then I think like all businesses with limited ambition we will decline into a lower league side.
The alternative is to take a risk and look for new owners capable of supporting a reasonable chance of establishing the club in the premiership in the way Leicester have succeeded.
This will require due diligence to reasonably ensure we don’t end up as a Wigan. Who carries out this process would also require a lot of careful consideration.
The most difficult task will be persuading Delia it’s time to go. If we continue as we are it’s time to look back and see how Chase was persuaded to leave.
Incidentally I’m not one of the younger supporters as I’ve been a city supporter for nearly sixty years.
On the issue of selling and where are the replacements coming from: we sold Maddison, 2 Murphy twins and Pritchard, for roughly £55m; we all wondered where the goals they represented were to come from then Pukki arrives for zero outlay and boom 29 league goals in one season.
Assuming some more of our valuable assets go this window, then we can already see that 3 newcomers have arrived plus another 4 confirmed by Michael Bailey yesterday. OK not all are for the first team squad but the pattern has been clear for all of SW’s reign, the others will join the small army of prospects already acquired for the Academy. It’s a long term project. Relax and enjoy the ride.
I remember a certain Robert Chase relying on selling our best players and continued to buy cheaper replacement and hoped the conveyer belt would continue which it didn’t even the Smith’s sold some family jewels ue Bellamy with the promise that he would be at city longer than she would he was gone a few weeks later.
False economy is trying to live of a possible income from an academy were nothing is for certain, look how many of the youth cup winning team have or are playing in the Premiership or championship
Fair point. I think the difference now is that many academy prospects are being bought in for peanuts and developed for sale or the first team. The set up is much more focussed under SW.
What finally rounded up the great unwashed to demonstrate was Chase’s sale of Chris Sutton. When Chase got himself even deeper in the poo Ashley Ward and Jon Newsome were offloaded for monkey nuts.
I won’t taint Delia & MFW with that brush in all fairness to them.
As for the Youth Cup winning squad there’s only Carlton Morris left. For now, but I’m sure he’ll be off on a low-value perm to join Russ at MK in the summer.
Hi Martin
Would never class the Smith’s with Chase it was just when she first took over she promised not to sell our talented players and within weeks sold our best one at that time.
Yes Nick I kind of agree but relax and enjoy the ride?
That’s something you can very rarely do as a Yellow!
Michael Bailey is exceptionally reliable and a very nice bloke too.
If you look at the history of Norwich City you will see it’s a very risky plan that relies on us producing a large income through the sale of our academy products.
Can you really see it leading to us establishing ourselves in the premiership?
Hi John
Yes like me you can see the future of the self funding model. It will not work for more than a couple of parachute payment assisted years because it cannot sustain itself in the longer term.
I’ve had many jobs over the years – mostly but not always in the journalistic world – and my limited concept of economics dictates that it WILL not work.
What can you sell if nobody wants to buy it? Zilch.
I’ve no scrying glass but I really wish certain people would realise the bigger long term picture – in the financial sense anyway.
One season with no academy product to sell on at megabucks & we’re stuffed.
Thanks mate.
Thanks Martin. Many moons ago I graduated with a management degree and one of the things we were told to do was plan ahead and it’s always served me well.
You should look one, three and five years ahead and try and forecast where you will end up.
It’s obviously difficult to forecast very accurately more than a couple of years ahead, such is the speed of the modern world.
What worries me about City’s future is if we remain in the championship or lower after parachute payments stop how are we going to meet the shortfall in working capital.
For all the criticism aimed at Marcus Evans his wealth has prevented Ipswich from folding. There is no way our current board could meet the shortfalls Ipswich are experiencing. We may not be in as bad a shape but the demand will still be excessive.
Having an owner with considerably more wealth than ours provides added protection as well as being able to take advantage of any opportunities that may arise, as was the case this season.
An interesting article. From Christmas the season has been a complete waste of time and money for Norwich supporters.
Micheal and Delia seem to think that Norwich City Football club can replicate Southampton with young talent coming through the ranks, being sold for big money to pump back into the team. This is great in theory but like all young teams they need experienced leaders in key areas of the field to continue learning and mastering their craft. At Norwich we have none of those!
Where Norwich have failed as a club is balance. Use the academy and then invest wisely in key areas. Two or three players to steer the ship in the starting eleven. Big clubs aka Mancher United having been doing this for decades.
Supporters will look back at this season and think what a wasted opportunity. Without any investment this will happen every time we may get to the Premier League.
No Premier League experienced players as the previous have been sold.
Buying prospects or 2nd tier players to fill the gaps.
Players not commanding a higher fee as they are Championship players.
Having the same capacity stadium which doesn’t allow the natural growth of supports or increase club revenues.
The model is flawed and when we have a recruitment policy which appears to still be poor regarding loans and genuine articles I dont hold out much hope.
Its at least another season in the Championship time to dig in, there is no telling how much of a team NCFC will have left next season?
Hi Greg
I dunno just how interesting the article is but it is heartfelt and I love reading the comments whichever side of the fence they are from.
Yours views are pretty much spot on in my opinion. I think we do have experienced mentors in Krul and Tettey but nothing further up the pitch.
City don’t possess the kite to increase the capacity. We had the chance to do that a few years ago before we splashed out on Naismith, Jarvis and Wildschut instead so didn’t take said chance.
Even now that might have been the right decision – how many regulars will go back after Covid-19 when we’re eventually allowed to I wonder?
The model is flawed – you bet.
Thanks for a good comment.
Hi Martin, I think everyone has brought up some excellent points.
As for Krul and Tettey being leaders I have to be honest it has been a poor show in terms of defensive organisation. Greg Downes has repeatedly said space doesn’t score goals! Why we cannot adopt a different system is beyond me? There are so many yellow shirts in our box nobody appears to know who they are supposed to pick up? This has happened 99% of every game and I would expect better communication from the above mentioned. Now there is no crowd noise it is easy to hear the silence within our own box which is like a rudderless ship.
In terms of ownership and being concerned about foreign investment, I’d point to Oxford United, my second club.
Sold to an English owner in the late 90’s, an extremely exploitative owner that drove the club out of the football league so that he could build a hotel, bowling ally, and cinema. It’s taken money earned from the US dental industry (I believe), and now Thai money, to return the club back to where they were. Ironically, that may be the same league as us next season.
Yes I get that completely.
I hate the phrase be careful what you wish for but your point illustrates it well.
I’ve always been a fan of Gareth Ainsworth [he likes the same style of music as me by all accounts] so I’m rooting for Wycombe.
That game will almost be a local derby!
As certain as rain will interrupt the Test Match, so comes an article saying that our owners must hand over the reigns. No suggestion to who, of course, but that’s just a minor detail. There’s obviously people lining up out there to take us over and Delia & Co. are simply refusing to even talk to them.
As Laurence G puts it far more eloquently above, there are certain realities that we have to accept about our situation. Particularly during a pandemic where money is likely to be in short supply for a while.
Option A, without question.
Good for you DP3.
Of course I don’t know who we might sell out too – Delia isn’t going to get on the phone to tell me – or you – now is she?
The pandemic delayed publication of this article by over three months so believe us there is no question of insensitivity.
I stand by the fact that Delia doesn’t consider selling up. After all she said it herself.
Thanks for another good comment.
Completely spot-on Martin.
Money doesn’t guarantee success, but at least it gives us a chance. Currently, we have none.
As I mentioned in Gary’s post, The Smith’s are superfluous. They serve no purpose to Norwich City Football Club other than keeping themselves in the public eye and any potential investment from ‘Johnny Foreigner’ out.
They are not serious people, they are merely playing. Poking a finger in their self made diluted pie. They may mean well, but what does that mean? I’m in business and I’ve seen many nice, well meaning people who frankly weren’t up to it, despite their good intentions. What is the difference here?
Many words have been written about Delia & Michael. Good, Bad, Indifferent and Inaccurate, but it is becoming increasingly boring as the story is always the same. The book has been read too many times, with a loose spine, crumpled edges and the pages falling out.
When will people have had enough?
Hi IR
My favourite comment on what was always going to be a contentious MFW offering.
Your business analogy particularly resonates. Only in the last 10 or so years have I had to make my own [smalltime] business decisions and my mantra swiftly became once bitten twice shy, closely followed by contract who you know and know who you contract. That way you all stay mates and everyone gets a square deal. You can’t beat it.
As for the Smiths and the public eye I’ve always thought of NCFC as being a constant Jolly Boys Outing for them and nothing’s changed my mind on that. What else is left?
Many people have had enough but too many are either afraid or unwilling to say so.
What finally finished me was their borderline racist comment about camels.
Thanks very much.
Personally what I like is that the club is owned by a life-long supporter, and his wife; indeed the idea that I could support a club that is owned by anyone other than genuine fans is anathema to me.
Who these two happen to be has no relevance to me. I have very little interest in food, hate cooking, have never watched any cookery programme or opened a cookery book. The closest I’ve come is getting into trouble for using one as a mat for my hot cup of coffee.
I do understand that they are, by all accounts, genuine and decent people. I have a great deal of time for the way they have developed the club off the field, and built the attendances. So whilst I don’t “worship Michael and Delia” I do like the nature of their ownership.
Were I the person who owned the club, but as a “poor millionaire”, I would not necessarily be against selling to new investors in my old age. But I would be very wary of letting anybody take over who were not established fans without some very strong provisions to ensure the “community-based” nature of the club continued, and further provisions for when they in turn sold
So I’m curious how others think they would feel if they imagine they were the ageing owners, and the succession was their problem.
The trouble is, this stance rather restricts who you can sell to. James Dyson is the richest man to have come out of Norfolk in current times, but unfortunately he doesn’t seem very interested in football.
And even if you do find some external billionaire investor who is apparently willing to accept restrictions on day one, at the back of your mind you would fear such promises would be empty ones in the long term. Who didn’t predict that everything the Chinese promised when they took back Hong Kong would be torn up in relatively quick time?
The current owners’ on-field record was pretty poor for the first 10 years. The last 10 have been more successful, but it is without doubt disappointing that we haven’t made a better fist of becoming established in the PL, and until this season made very little impact in the cups.
The reality is though that the only owner we have ever had who achieved that was, in the end, hounded out.
For me, as an exile who can’t get to Carrow Road very often, the most important thing is that when I do hack 200 miles across country I get to see positive, attractive football, whatever division we are in. If that is Premier League, all the better, but it isn’t the be all and end all. I would never, ever, want to watch us in the PL for several seasons if the only way it could be achieved was playing like Stoke under Tony Pullis.
If I lived in Norfolk with a season ticket, I would without doubt be more demanding, and I get the frustration that a large and loyal band of fans feel at the end of a season like this.
People are demanding that Delia and Michael “Go”, which in practice means “Sell”. They could “go” and leave Tom in charge, or anyone else they choose, but it wouldn’t solve the investment issue.
Reality is that even if the Smiths announced tomorrow that they will sell to anybody, no restrictions, I am not convinced there would be a long list of people willing and able to provide the kind of funding that enables a club like ours to establish itself in the PL.
Finally, “most who get the OAP discount would tick that box even if only because any spirit they ever had in the first place has evaporated by now.”
That’s pretty insulting – I can assure you that whilst I do receive the OAP discount my spirit has certainly not evaporated one little bit. Well not yet anyway.
Hi Keith
Don’t get wrong with me on the OAP comment – I apologised to the folks I knew who were over the threshold in a very early reply to Jim D so I’m very happy to add you to the list of those apologised to – I had no idea how old you are. Not my biz – but I know now 🙂
I’m nearly 63 so I’m no spring cluck-cluck myself.
Onto matters more salient yes I live in Norfolk and get to see us on an extremely regular basis. Or did until recently anyway. Nobody likes attractive football more than you, I and 1000s of others.
My idea about Delia and Michael gently retreating into the background revolves around them having life vice Presidencies or something like that. What nephew Tom might do I do not know but one of our most respected MFW writers and also a non-football friend of mine have met him several times between them and rate him highly.
Only time will tell.
Thanks as always.
Call me a boring fence-sitting happy clapper if you will (and trust me I’ve been called much worse) but the club’s ownership debate just doesn’t interest me any more.
I love coming on MFW to debate the finer points of the team, Farke or Webber because as a fan of some years, I feel I have a very limited understanding of football.
But when it comes to the owners, I’m a bit meh really, because I don’t feel I can influence or properly judge the situation – ultimately what other people do with their hard earned pennies is up to them.
Is Delia perfect? Not at all, made many mistakes, lacks good PR sense in my view and yes there’s no denying, is not wealthy compared to her counterparts.
Has her ownership been awful? Well in November 1996 we were a midling Championship club, crowds were 14,000-ish and we were heavily in debt. When Delia leaves, and I expect this to be soon, no one can deny the club has progressed substantially from those dark days.
Would we be better off with new owners? Who knows, maybe, maybe not. As others say, raise me a Leicester and I’ll raise you a Coventry, there are just too many variables to say for sure.
Until someone vocally declares an interest in buying the club (which to my knowledge, nobody has since 2008) I just can’t get too enthused, sorry!
Hi Segura
Alot of commonsense in your opening words but to perpetuate the Smith’s control I doubt if they would announce to anyone that they have had offers for either investment or a full takeover.
As I said earlier living in Blackpool we watched the crumbling dynasty of the Oystons and during all the protests they maintained that they have never received any offers for either investment or takeover but Belekov insisted that he had tried on numerous occasions to take the club over.
So in reality we do not know if in the last 12 years or so if the club has had offers or not as I understand any approach is private until it is accepted.
You are right as far as I’m aware Alex. Technically an approach should be private until accepted but you know these naughty boys in the media 😉
We did have an interest a few years ago from a couple of people. One of them ended up owning QPR, and they haven’t exactly become resident in the Premier League, and the other was a guy called Di Stefano (great football name, for those of certain years), who claimed to be an Italian lawyer with a fake qualification. Good job D & M did proper due diligence on them, or I dread to think where we’d be now. Just shows, it ain’t easy to find a good buyer.
The QPR guy was Tony Fernandes of motor racing “fame”. I don’t remember Alfredo myself but I’ve seen a couple of stunning clips of him on YouTube playing for Real and Argentina.
As for the fake lawyer I do remember him but not the circs tbh.
As you, I and a few others have said in the article due diligence is vital. But unfortunately not infallible.
Okay Segura you’re a fence sitting happy clapper.
I know you’re not really cos happy clapper is a phrase we don’t tend to use on MFW and we always enjoy your comments – I do anyway.
We’d all rather concentrate on the finer issues of the team, but sometimes club politics rear their ugly head and they can be difficult to ignore.
On the essential topic I’m quite excited by Adam Idah [who I’ve seen play live once] and Josh Martin who I haven’t seen “in the flesh” at all. Yet. With all the recent under 23 recruits I just want to go along and see them for myself. Maybe next year?
I too remember the days of 14k crowds which could reduce to 11k for a January evening game – and 3k for a League or FA Cup fixture. Those were dark days indeed.
Thanks a lot.
Well Martin,
This has been a real eye-opener for me.
Having 2 season tickets in the Jarrold/South stand I wasn’t even aware of any OAP discount.
It looks like I’m missing out all round, since I got my bus pass in March, and was going to use it to travel to matches to save petrol/diesel, but that’s not likely anytime soon either!
Oh; and even with those two ST’s, I’m still awaiting even one phone call from the club during this pandemic to check that I’m OK……
Seriously, with SW and DF in charge of the playing side, I’m sure we’ll be there or thereabouts at the top of next season’s Championship……and will give a much better showing next time we are in the Prem.
O T B C
Afraid you’ve got a little longer to wait for your OAP discount, John. Discounts start at over 65, then a further discount at 75.
I was told by my mate the other day it’s over 66 now!
Not according to the club web site today (I checked!) Its 65 and 75 for the 20-21 season, Martin. Your mate is spreading fake news!
Hi John
I paid NI all my born natural always assuming I’d get my State Pension at 65 then about six years ago I got a letter saying no mate. 66. Two days later Mrs P got an almost identical letter & she’s 18 months older than me. I don’t trust my written pension forecast and nor does she trust hers 🙂
No predictions from me for next season until I see the squad numbers allocated.
PS I did get a call from the club [as an over-60] while I was out from a very friendly-sounding guy called Phil but the answerphone message cut out so I never got to discover his surname.
A couple of my friends got calls as well but not from players.
Top read Martin, how some people have the gall to question the relevance of the subject matter is truly bizarre.
Neither use nor ornament, their only ambition for the club is to continue to own it. If that means downsizing it to fit their means then that’s a price worth paying both for them and their little cabal of acolytes.
As they enter their eighties, their family heirloom plan for our football club looms ever larger. Quite why only relatives of Delia smith are considered fit to own/run Norwich City is a mystery to most.
There are currently several football clubs, some bigger, some smaller, which are in the process of being bought/rescued/invested in. All appear to have more than one interested party. It would appear that the City are not a club that anybody would be interested in approaching if the chance arose. Nonsense.
As the club continues its struggles and commentators, pundits and ex players queue up to criticise the total lack of support for the manager, the question of the ownership, the direction in which they are pulling the club, their plans and their motivations, let alone those of the nephew will be increasingly under the microscope of those who hold Norwich City dear. That microscope and the debate it engenders appears to upset the friends of Delia, who will brook no argument or the faintest hint of criticism of her and her record. For that reason alone Martin, please continue to stoke the debate. 😂😂
Hi Chris
We’ve felt it inappropriate to reopen this debate until now but as players are on pitches again and the fate of our club has been determined, yeah, why not?
Needless to say I agree with you at every turn and I find the question of Tom Smith and his abilities intriguing. There are those who shout “nepotism”, “paperclip counter” and “what’s the point of him” on social media but as I’ve mentioned above one of our MFW writers and an unconnected friend have met him a few times between them and both rate him highly.
I am sure he will one day get the chance to show us his abilities.
This whole scenario seriously reminds me of the Queen and Prince Charles, featuring MWJ as Philip. Heaven help us if there’s a William or Harry Smith with a Stowmarket-registered passport.
Thanks mate.
Quite frankly she’s always been embarrassing since the man city game and her reign and investment is really very very stale . She should do the right thing get rid of farke and webber and sell up please and then we could have some hope again . Even if its a team that can train properly and take freekicks and defend them you know the basics and recruit 2 proper proper centre backs to build a team around not keep buying kids .
Hi Jim
I agree with everything you say except that I think I would rather retain Webber and Farke. They’ve had very little clay to model with tbh so let’s see what the new season brings.
Thanks.
If you invest it doesn’t guarantee success (see Villa or Fulham). If you don’t invest it guarantees a serious lack of success (see NCFC several times in the Prem). Whilst D&M are in situ we can only really hope of 17th. Currently the academy is producing product to plug the gaps, however this has only got going in the past couple of years, few (apart from the Murphys) from the FAYC winning squad have gone on to do anything higher than bottom end Chump. The lack of players coming through has a far longer history than the talents currently in the squad. Regarding not knowing anyone who has expressed an interest in buying NCFC, in my experience of dealing with company owners and millionaires not a single one of them regards telling Michael Bailey or Paddy Davitt what they are planning as an essential business tool…..
Hi BB
Can’t dispute any of that. Yeah 17th in the PL every season would actually do for me while there are many people who would be happy “ripping up the Champ” and finishing, erm, 10th or something in it.
Good comment – I like the line about the millionaires and the journos. Spot on.
Very interesting as always Martin.
I have already said the other day on here that I do not think that self funding will work in the long term, but Delia selling up is also extremely risky. A real voyage into the unknown.
Get a Leicester, Southampton or Wolves owner great, a Blackburn, Bolton or god forbid a Wigan finishing 20th in the Premier League could be seen in the future some kind of golden years.
The truth is I just don’t know what is best for the club. I was told by a very good source from within the club that some extremely wealthy people in the Newmarket area were approached for investment some years ago, now was that to take over from the Smiths or just putting money into the club I don’t know.
They were told that their was absolutely no interest from any parts of the family. Now time has moved on and it maybe worthwhile revisiting that line of enquiry as the Premier League has grown massively over the last 10 years and the younger members of the family may now be interested.
To me Martin I do not think the Smiths will sell, I agree with you that they see it as their toy and do not want anyone else to play with it. But they are not a Robert Chase by any stretch of the imagination.
But like Chris Goreham said on the radio the other day he does not believe there is anyone out there who wants to buy us. And he maybe well be right.
And lets be honest these days even clubs like the mighty Arsenal are a selling club.
But on the other hand certain arch nemesis critics of the Smiths seem to think get rid of them and we will enter a wonderland of permanent Premier League football chasing the European dream. That isn’t a guarantee of anything.
My dear old friend Marty, a home and away supporter is rightly disappointed as he says yet another trip to the Premier League wasted, and if your a Delia supporter or a Delia outer you have to agree with him.
Finally, some of the criticism on Canary Call and Twitter etc after the Brighton and Watford games was way over the top, saying the worst team ever !!! lets not forget the Glenn Roeder or Bryan Gunn eras where the football was far worse than this by a country mile.
Hi Tim
That’s a fantastic and well-balanced comment I enjoyed reading.
These rumours about “offers have been made and spurned on sight” or “nobody is interested” fascinate me. It’s a question with no answers let alone definitive ones.
I don’t do Twitter and very rarely listen to Canary Call but I can imagine, believe me.
Yes this Marty agrees with your friend Marty. Big time.
Cheers.
Funny how this old chestnut disappears when we are on the up. Last season, on this very site, almost every writer was saying how refreshing out new model was and how we were going to show the EPL that there was a different way of doing it, but if we didn’t at least we’d have fun etc Oh, and also that the football on display was the best we had ever seen and that this particular group of players were different and had some real cohonas and would never give up etc etc
I really think it’s time everyone grew up a bit.
The EPL has 20 teams in it. Every one of them has more resources than we do – but that’s not the issue, because so do most of the Championship and half of League One. If resources were everything the richest clubs would be in the EPL – they’re not.
We have been batting way above our average for the last 10 years, and we still are. Portsmouth are owned by Michael Eisner of Disney fame. He is worth $2.5bn. Last summer he outlined his 10 year plan to establish Portsmouth as a global brand. It’s not had a great start has it? They reached the same point as last season. Their next move will probably be a higher profile manager and some higher paid players. Will that work? Who knows. If it does, who will Portsmouth replace in the EPL? A club like Norwich, maybe. Or Southampton. Or anyone else who isn’t Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs or Arsenal.
My point being that for clubs of a certain size everything is a gamble. The plan at Norwich isn’t as big a gamble though – we do have a system which is sustainable; those of you questioning it just need to look at the history. Every time we have gone outside where we are comfortable to spend big we have almost lost our club.
Every single club below the top 6 or 7 will get relegated at some point – being “established” has not saved West Ham or Watford from a battle this season. Bournemouth’s flirtation is coming to an end, as did Stoke’s, Wigan’s, Hull’s etc. As will Burnley’s, Sheff Utd’s, Palace’s etc. It’s completely inevitable and unless you have the ability to keep a rolling cashflow which dwarfs the TV money and have £600m in the bank you will go down eventually. That is what defines an “established” club – how much money is in the bank; how big your turnover is without TV; how much you can pay in wages.
Those of us who will always have to rely on TV money or selling players to survive will have occasional glimpses of the sun but will spend most of our time in the shade. FFP means the big 6 will always be the big 6. Of the rest only Everton, Leicester and maybe Wolves are moving towards them – everyone else is moving away at light speed. All of these 9 clubs are owned by multi billionaires.
You can only judge in the present. We loved it last year; we hated it this year. Worst case scenario is we bank some money and are in the same place we were in when Farke/Webber arrived, but at the moment we are miles ahead still.
Would you really rather have gone down the Villa/Fulham route and left all of those heroes we praised for last year out of the team? They tried to step up but couldn’t sustain it for lots of reasons. Apparently that’s the owners fault.
Like I said earlier – grow up.
Hi Stephen
Gary has said it all really but I don’t think “grow up” is particularly fair when you’re 62 years of age with four adult kids, two dogs etc etc etc.
Thanks anyway.
Then you really should know better, Martin!
🙂
“Last season, on this very site, almost every writer was saying how refreshing out new model was…”
Very harsh Stephen. Martin and I have continually questioned whether the current ownership model has both the ability or desire to take this club forward – both last season and this.
I’m sure that even you, last season, must have been happy with the direction the club was heading, albeit with a question mark against the ownership.
Gary
I think all the supporters knew that this was going to be a tough old season and it was confirmed by the amount we spent mostly wasted on lians that didn’t work out.
Today the is a very interesting read in the mail about the clubs going up this season
here is the link
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8502927/Norwich-going-whimper-having-spent-summer.html
Thanks for that Alex. It was indeed a good read.
Having scanned through the comments the one that stands out for me is the one from John F. Maybe the question is not Option A or Option B but whether Option A is going to work. We are unlikely to see Option B on the table as long as Option A is viable. I have no personal issue with the owners, I think they add something to the club and I probably see eye to eye with them on many things. Their continued ownership is reliant on the club making enough money to cover expenditure. Look at the accounts for last season and look at the accounts for any Championship club that is not in receipt of parachute money. You will see massive losses, which as John F states, we can not cover in the way that Marcus Evans can. In a way this is good as we can not afford failure, this gives an element of urgency which has delivered 5 seasons of Premier League football out of 10. We also have to be shrewd players in the transfer market. It comes back to “we can not afford to fail”. Option A has to succeed, the consequences of Option A failing means that the very club would be in danger. If Option A failed and we did not win promotion before the parachute money ran out, we would have to sell players like we did in 2018. This would be fine as long as we do not weaken the team to the degree that we slide out of the Championship. Option A would then be reliant on being able to produce and replace players to cover the shortfall in the accounts. If this fails we are forced to take Option B. The danger with Option B at a time of weakness is that it is the scenario Coventry faced. It looks like the option is either for Option A to never fail or for Option B to be agreed on our terms
Hi John.
Very well put indeed and although I’m obviously in the Option B camp but when you say: It looks like the option is either for Option A to never fail or for Option B to be agreed on our terms” I think you’ve pretty much said it all.
What worries me is that even a Rolls Royce breaks down sometimes!
A very good comment.
Probably one of the younger fans that will back the self funding model here, but look at Southampton a few years ago. Sold the likes of mane, van dijk, lallana, clyne, Walcott, Oxlade-chamberlain. Most of them to Liverpool but they continued to produce enough players to strengthen themselves to a point they no longer had to sell unless it was crazy money (VVD £75M) I know it’s frustrating when we’re initially implementing these plans but given the number of talented youngsters we’re currently linked with, if Farke can continue his excellent development of those youngsters into decent players, we’ll always have at least one or two more academy players waiting to step up. If we did see major sales this summer, I actually think a rebuilt city stand is more likely than people realise, Webber has been quoted as saying the whole thing needs rebuilding as soon as possible to update the facilities with new media requirements and dressing room standards to meet PL regulations
Hi Adam
Southampton is a great example of how to do it right, agreed. I hope this new crop will soon be able to fill the boots of, say, Aarons, Godfrey and Cantwell but it’s just a hope.
Because I’ve yet to see most of them play so I don’t know what they’re like! I try to catch a couple of under 23 games every season but I’ve only been once this time round and that was back in, I guess October.
You caught me unawares about Webber’s intentions for the City Stand being “urgent”.
Thanks for that [I missed it myself] – and for a good comment.
Watching the under 23s is only half the issue these days, we have so many of the youngsters out on loan these days it’s impossible to keep track
Agreed.
But looking at Idah and Martin already breaking through, Gilmour is looking good apparently, we’ve got a lot of cheap signings apparently coming in and one or two we’ve paid good money for supposedly. If everyone gels well over the summer we’re in good shape to bounce back whoever leaves this summer, The only player being linked with a move away that truly concerns me is Godfrey. Zimmermann I think is a good defender but he has had a lot of injuries this season, Klose has been injured more than he’s played for us and Hanley isn’t getting younger with the injuries he’s had this season. CB is the one position we’re likely to have problems in regardless of what happens in the window
If Delia wants to hold on to power (and I think she does) then her best bet is to try some out and out honesty. A hard hitting interview with someone like you or Mick Dennis. Tell it like it really is. Don’t allude to financial issues – spell it out in clear and easy to understand terms. Make it clear how dire our position was and what needs to be done to avoid it happening again. If we need to sell £30m players every year – say so. Don’t just put Webber up to edge around the issue with hints and suggestions that all is not well. Most true supporters would accept and appreciate the honesty and buy into the project. The aim of most Premier League Clubs are happy just to stay there to keep going. Our ambition may just be to stay afloat in the Championship.
For a Championship club to be self fund the average salary should be £8k a week. In fact it is around £15k. That’s the sort of information she needs to get across if she wants people to go forward with her.