That went well.
We still seem to be in grip of Murphy’s Law; all part of the unhealthy hangover from that cursed Premier League campaign.
For everyone outside the Canary Nation there will have been comedic value in Teemi Pukki slipping and sliding around the Barclay End penalty spot, before contriving, double-footed, to somehow clip David Marshall’s crossbar.
Mick McCarthy and Danny Higginbottom – Sky Sports summarisers extraordinaire – at least comforted themselves with the fact that even if Pukki had hit the net, it would have had to be retaken.
The pair also agreed it was possibly a turning point and if only the Rams could just conjure up a set-piece within sight of City’s goal they might, just might, be able to nick a goal and stage a good old fashioned smash n’ grab.
That they did exactly that, with Wayne Rooney duly obliging, will have triggered high fives aplenty on the TV gantry.
For those of us not tickled pink by Pukki’s misfortune and who didn’t derive even the slightest element of joy out of the ‘experts’ proving themselves experts, it was just another in a very, very long line of Norwich City related disappointments.
We’re used to it.
Feeling let down and peed off is what we do. Our shtick. At least it has been for the last seven months.
Right now, the opening day win at Huddersfield – let’s not forget, courtesy of an individual horror show from Richard Stearman – feels like an anomaly amidst a sea of grimness, with kicks to the gonads outnumbering moments of elation by about five to one.
Thanks only to Mr Stearman, we don’t have fewer points than games played.
That yesterday’s overall performance was actually quite good in parts makes it all the more frustrating. While Farkeball 2.0 is yet to really develop into a thing, there were enough glimpses of the original version on show to suggest there is still a team in there somewhere.
But it’s one that, at the moment, is struggling for an identity.
There were moments in the first-half in particular, but also in the lead-up to the penalty, where it purred like that classic Rolls Royce engine of 2018-19.
Marco Stiepermann, Emi Buendia and Pukki would occasionally hit that grove in which we so reveled, and in those moments everything felt right again, but this is not going to be a repeat of that never-to-be forgotten campaign.
That was a one-off.
This is a different squad with a different dynamic and which, while desperately clinging onto strands of two seasons ago, has to develop a style of its own. Take Buendia’s invention out of that mix and it will look nothing like the 2018-19 version.
But the identity struggle doesn’t just come from trying, and only partially succeeding, to force what once came naturally.
With new players come new strengths and so the team and its style will naturally evolve, the most obvious example being Xavi Qunitilla’s desire to use that cultured left foot to put crosses into the box.
To coach that out of Quintilla when, clearly, it could be hugely productive, would make no sense, but you don’t need to possess the tactical vision of Bielsa to see that Pukki is not the type of striker to thrive off “elevated” crosses.
He just doesn’t. Pukki prefers cute balls slid down the channels or measured, low, near-post crosses that give him a chance to steal half-a-yard on the centre-back. He’s not going to come steaming in at the far post in a Joe Jordan style (one for the teenagers) and bundle ball, goalkeeper, and centre-back into the net.
Equally, no-one wants us to be that team that bangs high balls into Jordan Hugill at the expense of being intricate, neat and incisive around the edge of the box but, right now, Quintilla’s quality crossing is producing little and Hugill, for all his traditional number nine values, isn’t even a bit-part player.
Adam Idah too offers a different skillset to the mix whenever he gets a chance but he too is suffering from Pukki being the first name on the team-sheet.
I get that the greatest Finnish striker ever to wear yellow is showing signs of his former self, and also that being a lone striker against a back-five was a near-impossible task, but we have other options now, and if he’s not fulfilling his main role in the team then what have we to lose by tinkering?
It doesn’t mean Pukki is finished (accidental – sorry), or that he won’t come back into the team and score 20 goals, but he’s one suffering more than most from that bloody Premier League hangover.
So too is the head coach. While there is not even the slightest doubt around his tenure given the nature of the project, any coach who has overseen 16 defeats in 20 games deserves to feel a little heat. If he isn’t, then maybe that’s also part of the problem.
Those calling for his tenure to end are, in my view, jumping the gun but it’s easy to see how they arrived at that conclusion. How many other managers or head coaches in the 92 would endure a run of that ilk and not be under even a modicum of pressure?
That we have the same number of points and appear to be in a similar hole to that of early October 2018 may offer comfort to some, but this is a wholly different scenario. While we were all a little grumpy and edgy back then, there was little expectation of it being a title-winning campaign.
This season, we expect. We’re told the model revolves around potentially getting relegated but to then be in a position to bounce back better and stronger better, and so to be around. or preferably in, the top six is a must.
But, before the legions of loyalists armed with pitchforks advance on Carlton Colville, I accept we’re still only four games in. This is still very much a work-in-progress and all of the clumsy points I’ve raised will be part of the Colney debate along with many far more salient lines of thought.
There’s now an international break to help Team Farke find a formula to help us unlock defences whose sole intention is to stop us scoring.
The Buendia situation of course needs resolving. He showed yesterday why he’s so important to this team but I do fear he’s bound for pastures new. Not because he flounced after being being substituted – that was Emi being Emi – but because he’s too good for the Championship and will be worth an eleventh-hour gamble for a West Ham or a Southampton.
Either way, until the window closes there will remain an air of nervousness and uncertainty around the place. Hopefully then, armed with a squad that’s fully focused and without distraction, can we push on.
Until then, it just all feels a little grim.
Why was the penalty not retaken if he kicked it with two feet? Since the days of Willie Carr and his donkey kick that has not been allowed. So I don’t understand how it is able to stand as a ‘miss’ if it would have not been counted if it had gone in. Or is this yet again a case of VAR not being there when we finally needed it?
Another thing Marshall was about a foot of his line so again it should have been retaken.
VAR has a lot to answer for but just maybe we would have gotten more out of the games if incidents could be reviewed.
Because he missed. Incompetence doesn’t allow you another go.
If the ref had seen the double touch , it would have been an indirect free kick to Derby not a retaken kick.
If he touched it twice then the rule is not a retake but a free kick on the penalty spot for Derby
Which at the end of the day, is really no different from the goal kick which resulted from Pukki’s slip. Sack the groundsman!
I wouldn’t be surprised if Farke walks. He achieved promotion with a very young and talented team only to discover that our woefully inadequate owners would/could not support him with the necessary investment to mount a decent challenge at survival.
Instead they embarrassed both him and the club nationally by investing £750,000.
No wonder we appeared last on MOTD and were regularly ridiculed by the media. They could see the only concern of the clubs owners were the parachute payments following our inevitable relegation.
The owners were repaid their loans some time ago and from what I can make out they haven’t made any further investments. In fact I feel that by purchasing two season tickets I’m contributing more to supporting Delia’s social club than she is. Even when faced with capital expenditure to modernise the training facilities she persuaded the supporters to provide her with cheap loans via a bond.
We are now faced with a team that has already lost two very talented young players with three more imminent departures followed by possibly more senior players leaving in January.
Is a club that survives by buying several young promising players in the hope they become a Maddison or Godfrey on a stable footing or just throwing the dice?
The clubs lack of ambition is now resulting in a rapid decline.
I’m sick and tired of this pointless little Norwich self funding nonsense. I want to be a Leicester and don’t be fooled there are plenty of suitable investors out there.
“There are plenty of suitable investors out there”.
Pray tell, who are these saviours then?
Football is about to have its trousers pulled down and it’s not going to be pretty, so be grateful you have a club rather than moaning at the owners after an undeserved defeat.
Clubs above and below us have found people who are investing more than our owners.
I’m sure The Times interview has ensured nobody will come knocking at our door.
That, John, was the hidden agenda of the Henry Winter Times article.
Totally agree with you Martin. As soon as I read it I thought that’s us stuffed.
No, come on answer the question who are these investors that will push us to the next level, whatever that is.
Name some names, rather than spouting hot air.
The truth is none of us know about investor interest, until someone says ‘I want to buy out the Smiths, invest £100s of millions on the playing squad and rebuild the City Stand’ I’m not interested.
The fact that this scenario is extremely unlikely post Covid, just won’t appease some people.
If you truly despise the Smiths and everything they stand for, which I get the impression you do, then do something about it, moaning at them every time we lose is pathetic.
Do you really believe that there is something peculiar about Norwich that means they are not attractive to investors when the majority of clubs around and above us have managed to attract them.
Why have we not become a Leicester?
The current pandemic does not affect the extremely wealthy in the same way as everybody else.
The Times article encouraged them look elsewhere.
Hi Segura.
I’m not attempting to answer on John’s behalf here but I enjoy comments from himself and yourself on my MFW articles equally.
The way I see it focus on the Smiths becomes more intensified every time we fail on the pitch. That’s natural – cut a bit of slack for those who have had enough of them please. It’s sheer frustration emerging and when there’s no hope of change it deflates very many of us.
Of course none of us know where precisely these investors in the sky might be but I’ll tell you something. If you make an enquiry to an intransigent party once you’ll not do it again. You want a Merc but the dealer guy doesn’t think you’re fit to buy one?
Then you buy an Audi or, heaven help you in my experience, a Jag. Or maybe more like a Vauxhall if that’s all you’re allowed.
The Smiths are not prepared to leave Carrow Road for anybody or anything. I’ve had my ST for 33 years and if I won £120billion on Euromillions they would still find a way to reject me as not fit for [their] purpose. Luckily I am not dumb enough to put serious money into NCFC in the first place but surely you know what I mean?
Anyway it’s great to see that we can have a civilised debate when we’re all cacked off!
There is a table of Championship owners’ wealth on the Pink’un forum (although it’s not entirely accurate, as it includes Fulham) and it shows D&M as being almost the poorest. However, personal wealth doesn’t necessarily mean money put into the club by some who see it as an investment. Just look down the A140.
I would add that I do not despise the Smiths as I was very grateful when they almost certainly saved the club from administration in the 90s.
The point I’m making is there comes a time in every business when there is a need for new ownership or direction in order to reinvigorate or finance it. I’m afraid the this time is long overdue at City.
Thanks for the responses, agreed it’s good to have a healthy debate on here!
The point I was trying to make, perhaps not very well, was that I would love nothing more for Norwich to be in Leicester’s position – they are a fine example of investment working superbly – indeed on a recent visit to Thailand I was amazed to see a Leicester City shop at Bangkok airport, that would have been unthinkable just a decade ago!
But the money it would take to transform Norwich to that level is huge – that immediately limits the number and quality of would-be investors who can be interested.
Martin – I don’t doubt the Smiths have turned down interest over the years, but neither of us know how decent the quality of that investment was.
There was once rumoured interest from Tony Fernandes – he looks great on paper but how well did that turn out for QPR?
I get the impression some fans would rather anyone but the Smiths take over, fine I get the frustration, but just because someone wants to invest and is wealthier than them, doesn’t mean they will do a better job.
As stated, I would like to see an investor go public, outlining exactly how they will transform the club, but personally I don’t think this will happen any time soon.
PL are being asked to bail out the EFL and have suppose to have said yes but are wary that clubs in the Championship with very rich owners or getting relegated payments will get some, why do these clubs need bailing out.
York city gets 10% sell on for Godfrey surely they can survive on that.
Premiership clubs have sell on clause for many players recruited from the lower leagues why not buy them clauses out this will provide money and not hurt the premiership
We’ve had a decade of “who are these investors”, while ignoring a decade of teams being bought at every level and every geographic location.
It’s quite the logical leap people have to make every time they say that.
Agreed David, it’s a stupid response. As if any of us has the names of billionaires and investors at our fingertips.
Yes that’s true Dave, and several of those of teams are now staring into the abyss.
Granted there are exceptions, I’ll give you Leicester, Wolves and Brighton for now, but how did Pompey, Sheff Weds and Sunderland turn out?
As mentioned, I would love nothing more for a big would-be investor to go public and outline how they will transform the club.
Until then just saying I want investment, but going quiet whenever someone asks for the who, why, how etc, isn’t constructive in my view.
One thing I will say on all this and that is Arsenal are a selling club.
“Cheap loans via the bond.” The bond actually cost 30% – that’s not cheap finance by any stretch of the imagination.
30% on the condition that the club earned 100M on promotion.
All to ensure the owners didn’t have to pay anything towards their own business they’d allow fall into a laughable state.
The bond was cheaper than the open market.
A little grim indeed.The trouble with Farke is his sticking to the same formation game after game,other coaches have sussed us out and now exactly how we are going to line up.Something has got to change whether that’s the sporting director,head coach leaving or more new players in,its stale and the new model need freshening up.
How frustrating have these last two games been? Lots of good football, plenty of possession. But the bottom line?
Moments of genuine quality for: Nil
Moments of genuine quality against: Two
Result – two losses, no points.
Incidentally, how much do you think that moment of quality will be costing Derby? The highest salary in the league presumably.
Identity crisis? Absolutely. Farke has something of a dilemma. He’s purchased Hugill for a substantial fee, but to make best use of him needs a different tactical approach – the sort of “plan B” loved by so many armchair critics who don’t actually have to spend hours and hours on the training ground perfecting it.
He could certainly set up with Hugil primarily playing with his back to goal looking to lay it off for Teemu Pukki, or Paddy O’Idah. But what does he do with the set up behind them? I’m sure one of our would-be tactical experts will be able to explain how to make it work, at least on paper. Would he still be wanting to play out from the back?
That there’s an international break doesn’t entirely help, as 2 of those 3 strikers won’t be at Colney to work with him..
It does feel to me that we are desperately in need of a break in the “lucky” sense. As ever we’ve brought in key players who’ve promptly got injured – something that seems to happen year after year to us. Yes, Stearman gifted us a lucky goal, but equally Skipp gifted PNE one – so these things work both ways.
And one final thought. We’re clearly not going to spend all the £35m+ we’ll be due from Newcastle and Everton (having allowed for York’s share) or anything like it.
Once the PL clubs have finished their business though, and have their squads lined up for the rest of 2020, it’s not impossible another face or two that’s surplus to their requirements might appear. I’m sure Webber will have plenty of targets and unlike many clubs we do most of our incoming business very quietly in private so a pleasant surprise (to us, not him) isn’t entirely out of the question. But I’m not holding my breath.
Whichever way you look at it we will never have a better chance of being promoted than this year with no Leeds, West Brom and Fulham. If we have a season of mid table mediocrity it will be twice as difficult next year. Yesterday was unfortunate but already the likes of Bournemouth who have lost players too are in a good position. I really like Farke but this is about the here and now. Possession figures and playing back and forth in front of a packed defence do not cut it. For those who quote our slow start last time round most of those teams finished high in the table. With all due respect Derby, PNE and Huddersfield will not. We desperately need a playmaker. We cannot wait. Instead of counting their money the owners should be spending a decent wedge of that on a top quality play maker and Emi replacement for now, not for selling in two years time. He will go, as will the others. How the plan works if you have to rebuild completely after every relegation goodness knows..
Pukki is suffering I agree but if not for a brilliant save from Declan and a duff penalty he would have three goals now.. I’m more worried about the staleness in the management and the players from last year. They meekly surrendered in the Premier League. Where is the desire this time round? Most of them know they are not good enough to survive in the Prem. They are on decent contracts so why put yourself through it again? That attitude seems to linger in this team. Webber is off soon. Farke is hugely fortunate that there has not been a packed house at Carrow Road as the post lockdown form has been abject. We need new energy in this team. Lose against the likes of Wycombe, Rotherham, Birmingham and the momentum for change will be unstoppable. It is time for Farke and his team to deliver or go.
What with the injuries to Dowell and Placheta; the farce of Pukki’s penalty-taking (City’s best penalty taker Todd Cantwell was not in the squad btw); and the queue by the exit door of players who think they’re good enough to play in the Premier League, despite proving last year patently they’re not – things are looking a bit grim. The good news (yes, there is some) is there’s plenty of ready money sloshing about at Carrow Road this season in relative terms, even if the luck isn’t. It’s good to know the club is likely to survive beyond this latest calamity and that’s the most important thing.
Hi Gary
A very good analysis of yesterday’s game and it was a typical ACN.
With Godfrey just about out the door and Cantwell surely not far behind him the squad will soon be unrecognisable from the promotion team.
As with you O agree Farke needs time to mold this new squad into a team city supporters will be happy with.
Gibson looked like an organiser cajoled all around him and could be the missing piece in the CB position.
The question that came to mind yesterday with everyone slipping and sliding around why one earth did Pukki try a run up for the penalty surely he could have got enough power from just standing still, but hasn’t he missed them before for city???
Emi being Emi stormed down the tunnel after being subbed will that be the last sight we will remember I hope not.
Cocu had already decided to take Rooney off when they got the free kick but let him take the kick first, Rupp was lucky not to get sent off so some are saying.
Now we are a CB down and will possibly be 2 midfielders and a RB before the 16th Oct, 2 long term injuries now Hanley is back in contention and 10 players out on loan can we expect and last minute transfers in.
Will Josh Martin get a chase or any other U23 to fill the gaps or can city recall any of the players on loan only time will tell.
With the this international break can cities coaching staff get much needed confidence into the ones left behind, will injuries hit us when the players return to many questions and time will supply the answers.
Will the muppets who want Farke out get their way or will he prove them wrong again personally I can’t see Delia paying off all the coaching team them paying compo for a new backroom team
Onwards and upwards
OTBC
Stay safe and stay healthy
Imagine unironically calling others “muppets” for wanting a ‘coach’ out that has lost 80% of his last 20 games and scored about 4 goals. I can’t imagine being that obsessed with the past, it’s known as clinical depression in my field.
I would possibly agree but this is a new season, new players and after a reasonable time and similar results continuing that is the time to call for him to leave, yes he has had a terrible run but injuries, loss of form all count towards this and the muppet thing is really people jumping on a bandwagon.
The point of a sporting director is not to become over reliant on a manager. Allowing continuity between managers.
Yet Webber says Daniels got a job as long as he has. So I’m not really sure what our plan or structure is.
I would call fans who dont want Farke gone as happy clippers.
No one especially me is saying he shouldn’t go all most sensible supporters are saying is that this is a new season, new team trying to finds it feet in this league.
What’s go on towards the end of last season is dead and buried and we all start from a fresh page.
All I will say is 4 games in and so far not much luck except the Huddersfield game, 2 internationals have interrupted any real settling in so let’s see at the end of October
Yes it may feel grim gary but one reason to truly be happy is Ben Godfrey going for £30 million pounds possibly for a joke of a defender our record without him in the team is 31 games 40 goals conceded with him in the team is 69 games 114 goals conceded so brilliant business and brilliant to see him gone along with lewis now we just need to get rid of the joke that is farke make him are youth team manager and get someone who can organise a defence , train a team properly without so many injuries, and who is not restricted in formations and style .
Yes webber has got our business style right just not the 1st team manager .
Except 3.5 years in and we’ve yet to see if players Webber has signed, can garner anywhere near the money the ones he inherited do.
Morning everyone. Yes we’re all Feeling both equally deflated and disappointed….Me feeling it a bit more than most today as I live in the city of Derby and had to endure my phone constantly pinging from 2.25pm yesterday!
Unlike most, especially those on the Archant website yesterday, I still think there’s no immediate need for panic yet….we are after all only four games into a new season. The constant daily distractions of potential bids, bids, rumours and subsequent player distraction which stems from all that which will unfortunately continue until the window slams shut is also an unwelcome sub-plot to the game planning done by Farke and his coaching staff.
However, a couple of things which caused my blood pressure to rise slightly yesterday was the decision by Rupp NOT to take one for the team and do the tactical foul and trip the Derby player on the half way line. Soon as the free kick was awarded (and did Rupp get a slight touch to the ball first BTW?), like Mick McCarthy I just knew Rooney would put it away.
Secondly, why have we invested a reported £5m on a striker who scored 15 goals in the Championship last season, and given him 3 x 10 minute cameos ? Call me old fashioned and given my age (48 this month) why can’t football these days be played in the traditional 4-4-2 formation ? On many occasions in our Championship winning season Farke deployed a 3-5-2 system which proved fruitful many times. Derby started 4-2-3-1 yesterday and changed to 3-5-2 to stifle our passing which after 20 minutes of the first half had effectively brought them back into it.
As I say, no need to panic but a fortnight now for a) Webber to keep all the current first team squad at Carrow Road,, and b) Farke to do what he did two years ago and use the international break to re-group, re-think and plot another unbeaten run of results. That started with Forest away in October 2018….let’s hope it does the same at Rotherham in two weeks time.
Stay safe everyone.
First I correct that Pukki is not greatest all time striker from Finland. Mikael Forssel likely is, Litmanen was not striker. Litmanen or Hyypia are all time best, actually if you look their career stats its Hyypia even majority of fans are saying its Litmanen. That is where we can see peoples blind spot, playing style means a lot to people. Same can be said easily about Norwich fans overrating Buendia very much. I saw that game and truth is that Buendia was not good at all. He is very undisciplined player, has ability to make some very good passes but his overall play is actually often even bad. Pukki on the other hand is well known as his laziness, he has been in that mood for Norwich since january transfer window. When he plays for Finland, he is very different player he is active his movement is way better so he has keep his starting line up place.
Norwich problem is not only Buendia and Pukki, but its important start because obviously Norwich needs new mentality to get results. Problem is also that they need each other, so letting just 1 leave will not be solution. When you keep players against their own will, it can easily bring problems. Either of them will not accept getting benched, their playing get even worse. Norwich transfer policy obviously is to stick those 2, because honestly it was only way to get results. Sometimes just your strongest weapons turn against you. Then you have also Cantwell who surely wants to leave.
Did any of the Finnish strikers mentioned ever play in yellow? Pukki was described as the greatest Finnish striker to play in yellow, this would make him better than Johanson.
Good correction, I read it too fast.
Overall Norwich played yesterday very slow tempo game, even when opponents parks bus its not best idea. Likely that was not idea. Norwich looks like a team without passion, team which has attitude problems. Its not every player. Norwich will very likely start next game with Hugill as striker, other possibility is Idah. International break means 3 games this time, Pukki will likely play at least 180 minutes. About Pukki I have impossible to see nothing more than 2 solutions for Norwich, Norwich will try to play style which fits him or let Pukki leave. Benching him or playing him in wrong positions is never going to be solution. Pukki is player who has been huge international level talent, we do know that he is not strongest mentally and that he can be too lazy. Interesting to see how he plays for finland now, he has played for national team too in history as he plays for norwich now.
Morning Mr G. good summary. I cannot see nothing wrong with having someone to get on the end of crosses into the box, how else will you score if the ball is not in the box and someone there to head, or hook the dam thing into the net. Heading a goal is part and parcl of the game ….is it not.
Farke ball was sublime first time round, the best football seen for mny a year. But this time round, everybody from manager to tealady knows how to play us, looking in it seem as if Farke has nothing else in his locker. Despite having a second option he seems reluctant to start off with it or only gives a few minutes from the end to prove itself , sort of looks like desperation to me.
Hugill was on but a few minutes and he brought a class save out of runaway Marshall. more than the others had done in 80 0dd minutes.
If anyone should be bnging on Farke’s door it is Hugill, that is more than one game that has been made for him. I might be out on my own here, but would have left Emi out until his head is right, and window closed, which is the case now. It is only 4 games in and the knives are out, understand it totally, I will not be sharpening mine just yet, if Farke doesn’t like the the voices against him, he needs to show a little more flexibility. We can still neat, intricate but then another option. at the other end. Otherwise it is pointless crossing to nobody
Gibson looks the part, think we shouls shell out for him if he wants to stay never mind what league we are in, same with Quintilla , surely enough already in Delia’s sherry store.
Much work to done , shame this international break is so soon, novemeber would have been a little better, not that I follow internationals that much.
Must mention The Linnets, what a great fightback in their 1st game, against a team still boasting being still fully professional. What a huge shame no fans to witness a great piece of history for the club. Quaility may not have been as good but enjoyed that game more than City’s
Lee Johnson?
Good analysis. I especially like the point about Quintilla’s crosses with no one able or there to head them in. Buendia did come back out of the tunnel straight away and I really hope we haven’t seen the last of him.
As for last season, it was only after lockdown that we really seemed to give up – those last games were inexcusable.
I have a lot of sympathy with John Fs view re money not spent last season but it’s not my money (well some of it is as a season ticket holder). There really did seem to be a lack of ambition to even survive for a season.
I confess to feeling more and more semi detached about it all (despite being a fan since the late 50s) and that’s because we can’t see them at home, live. If a lot more fans feel that way, I’d fear for season ticket renewals next season.
I think people have started to lose the habit of watching matches or at least watching elite level matches. They have possibly started watching lower league football and might not come back
One thought about Pukki and Hugill is that Pukki has shown a creative side to his game. It is possible to play both but with Pukki dropping back a bit more
I need my opinion Derby did not deserve 3 points. City probably deserved a point at Bournemouth. So there are positives being lost in a lot of negatives.
If you run through the team. Krul is one of the best keepers in the Championship. Aarons is still putting in a shift and is quality. I am surprised that he has not been sold so far. Zimmerman is not up to speed and probably is third choice Centre Back, in my opinion. Gibson had a decent debut and should make a difference. Quintilla is not as good as Lewis but he looks a shrewd signing. Skipp is showing signs of potential. The question is who plays alongside him. I still believe Tettey is worth a start alongside Skipp to see if that combination works. In my opinion the “back” 7 are good enough for a top 6 place.
Where I disagree with Farke is our attacking 4. I would play Hugill and Pukki together with Pukki slightly behind Hugill. That allows us to make use of all the crosses. I would like to see Hernandez and Placheta on the two flanks as their pace would open up defences in open games. Against packed defences we need more creativity.
OTBC
It seems to be the way of the world today, but the over-reaction on this and other message boards to yesterday’s undeserved defeat has been embarrassing.
Yes it’s frustrating, but Jesus wept, we’re four games into a new season, trying to bed in new players, it’s going to take a bit of time.
As ever, the truth probably lies somewhere between the teeth gnashing and positive Percys of this world.
We played an out of form team, happy to defend and to be fair defended well and we couldn’t break them down, I must have seen this type of game hundreds of times over the years.
We then mis a pen, which happens what every 2 in 10 situations, truly a mallet to the balls.
We then get countered and concede a poor free kick – one of two shots Derby had on target all game if memory serves.
Yes there are legitimate concerns, Pukki needs to come out of the firing line and the Todd / Emi situation isn’t helping anyone, but that’s football.
Last season people moaned at Farke for our defence, well four games in and we’ve only been opened up twice – Preston at home and Bournemouth away.
We may even be better defensively with Gibson, than Godfrey, we’ll have to wait and see.
We created some good openings yesterday – Aarons probably should have scored, not an easy chance but hit it low and the keeper can’t react in time.
Give it ten games. If the same performances and results are still happening then I accept, time to shake things up.
In the meantime, I never thought I’d say this, but thank goodness for an international break coming up!
People also seem to forget that Pukki didn’t start the 18-19 season as the main striker, that was Rhodes, with Pukki playing as the 10. It only started to come good when Pukki became main striker and Stepi moved to no 10. I think Farke still hasn’t found his ideal front 4 from the players he now has. Reverting to the 18-19 4 yesterday didn’t quite work, but Emi and Steipi did look a bit rusty. He probably won’t be able to settle on the front 4 until the transfer windows close, and I think he was counting on Dowell being a big player, this season, so losing him for half of it was a big blow.
Norwich City are paying the price for not investing last season to keep in the league they reluctantly occupied – and in turn, that has rubbed off onto the players.
Things are starting to unravel. There are clearly players out there that would rather be somewhere else and the squad just does not look happy. Losing doesn’t make you happy, but there appears to be a general malaise which I not entirely convinced Farke can cure.
While fans on the happier side of clapper, will point out we’re in the same position as we were two seasons ago, I do not see where the drive, passion and above all, substance is going to come from to make us get near the sharp end of the league.
In short, we’re not so much a team, more of a contractual obligation.
I don’t expect much this year, as somebody said yesterday we’ve got 16th written all over us. I don’t see how Farke would survive that, but together with Webber, they are unlikely to be here next season as I think they will run to an natural conclusion.
The biggest fear is what comes after. Will Delia want clones of what is currently here, with an uncritical, cost efficient coach who won’t make waves and another ambitious Sporting Director?
We all should be able to enjoy this season, but I fear we may have to make a lot of excuses for that to come to fruition based on the evidence so far.
There were only 2 positives yesterday, the defence looked much better without Godfrey and Lewis in it which comes as no surprise to many of us and the the 2nd is Eddie Howe is still available
Agree regarding Lewis and Godfrey. Not sure about Howe. He wouldn’t come here anyway under this ownership.
Well if People look at our form over last few seasons its been pants for first six or devem games but still managed two promotions . We have player decent enough last two games unlucky not too have four points more knives out for everyone aint goin to help anybody .time to let newbys bed in and see were it takes us thought rupp was decent yesterday offered more than mclean has lately derby are not mugs despite there slow start and Will be in promotion picture at end of season as Will we need to good out nerve and let farke sort it as social media was. The same before The Draw at portaloo Road wasnt it everyone?
Well summed up Gary.
These stats are not mine and I am too down after yesterday to go through them all, so apologies if they are are not exact.
All League.
City have failed to score in 14 of our last 18 games.
City’s record stands at played 16 lost 14 drew 1 lost 1
Teemu has 1 goal in his last 18 games.
1 clean sheet in 13 games.
That is dire.
However is it time for the manager to go, no way. Has Teemu Pukki become a bad player again no.
We are in a similar position league wise to where we were in Daniels’s first season 4 points in 4 games.
But the club is in a completely different place on and off the pitch and that is down to Stuart Webber and Daniel Farke. Now is not the time to panic.
The hangover from relegation still feels raw, players and agents are destabilizing the club, injuries are still affecting team selection.
I would say though one unfortunate similarity with Daniel’s first season is the slowness of build up, despite people feeling we were unlucky yesterday we cannot keep saying that. The tempo is far to slow. Look at the play for the penalty a quick build up reminiscent of the championship team.
It will also take time to bed in all the new players.
I would question why so many of the players ( admittedly good work by Webber) bought in the summer are out on loan. I just fear we could be short if we lose Todd, Emi and Max.
I disagree with a lot of commentators and while it maybe harsh I do not think we played that well yesterday, and I do feel for the first time since he has been here Daniel is now under pressure.
But I still have faith that he can turn this around. As for the Smiths whatever your opinion on them as a whole they are irrelevant in this particular point as they were in situ for that glorious championship winning season.
Finally Teemu, I wonder if he would benefit from playing behind Hugill which would also see us reap more reward for the increased number of crosses we are getting into the box. Lets be honest Teemu is a worker and I am sure he wouldn’t let us down there..
Sorry Gary that should say won 1 !!!
Same old same old Gary. You may as well save this as a template and save yourself some work.
As Farkes juggernaut of despair rattles on down the road to hell at least we now know the real priorities at carrow. Road. footballs version of a puppy farm, where results don’t matter as long as the profits come a rolling in.
Who can blame footballers for wanting to jump if they are treated as meat all the while they are here.
Farkeball has run its course, his football is turgid, soul less, goal less. Most of his tenure it has been that way. A coach, a developer, yes. A manager? No way. The record is a disgrace and it’s becoming quite comical as it gets worse and worse by the week to see how much rope he gets. Of course, we all know it’s not totally his fault. The millstone around the clubs neck is above him in the pecking order.
Norwich city has a manager who can’t manage, owners who don’t invest and players who don’t play. Its time for an almighty clear out from top to bottom pol pot stylee.
Sorry Chris cannot agree with goalless as we were only 2 behind Manchester City in 2018/19.
And we were the top scorers that year in the whole of the EFL. that year.
We have got to be fair in our criticism. I have supported city for over 50 years now and that season was the best football I have seen in all those years in all that time.
Only bettered by our Premiership years under Brown/ Stringer/Walker. And at times better than some of that, albiet at a lower level.
Yes but Tim, either side of the admittedly excellent promotion season the football has been foul. I’m just not ready for another year of failure.
The result against Derby was inevitable from the moment Pukki missed the penalty, but we do seem to make it easy for whoever we play – I think I could have got that ball in the enormous space left by Krul. A standard free kick, and dreadful goalkeeping I’m afraid.
However, there is always a bigger picture. In the game we were vastly the better team, as we were the last time we played them at home in the Championship, yet still managed to lose. Gibson is a better centre back than Godfrey is at the moment and that’s on the evidence of only one game. So we have a better player and £25m in the bank. Quintilla looks as good as Lewis at least, and may well get better, so that’s another £15m. Unfortunately Dowell got injured, but him or Cantwell? Got to be close. Last time we were in this league Cantwell barely got a game, and took dog’s abuse in the run in when he replaced Buendia, but just a few months later by selling him for upwards of £15m as well that’s apparently some kind of betrayal. If Dowell was still fit we wouldn’t miss him – but as Dowell is injured I suspect he will now be told to stay until January.
I think you’ll find that’s the model they’ve been talking about for the last 3 years. Do try and keep up, everyone.