‘Heretic!’ came the cries, followed swiftly by this MyFootballWriter contributor hot-footing it out of the city, desperately trying to ignore the insistent crackle of flaming torches and the clank of freshly-sharpened pitchforks in close pursuit…
But what could cause such a kerfuffle?
This.
(If at any point while reading you feel the urge to unlock the shed to collect some ‘implements’, please promise me you’ll resist…)
Things are going well at Carrow Road. This is self-evident. As usual.
However down the road, at Ipswich, things are… not going so well. Also as usual.
There may be a giggling handful of City supporters – OK, lots – who regard the increasingly disastrous situation at Portman Road with something approaching hand-rubbing glee. This is understandable, but it’s best not to mock too much because you never know how or when things may turn round. There but for the grace of Delia, etc…
So, in a weak attempt at temporary solidarity with the Blues I’d like to propose a hypothetical question. (You may feel the need to take a deep breath at this point).
The question is: Which Ipswich Town players past-or-present wouldn’t you have minded playing for Norwich City?
In fact I’d go even further: Which Ipswich Town players would you have liked to have played for Norwich City?
(If you’re having a coughing fit at this point, please gesture someone nearby to slap you heartily on the back. You’ll be fine. Otherwise call 111.)
Right. Here goes… Here are the players I wouldn’t have minded trotting out at Carrow Road in yellow and green – once they’d confessed their sins.
– In at No. 10 is goal machine striker Ray Crawford, who scored 227 goals in 353 appearances for Town in two spells (1958-63, 1966-69).
– No. 9 is another ace goal-getter, Ted Phillips, who scored 179 goals in 294 apps. Often in partnership with Crawford (1953-64)
– No. 8 may be a surprise, but on his day he was unstoppable. Dalian Atkinson was a real powerhouse with goal threat scoring 21 goals in 69 apps (1983-89).
– No. 7. Trevor Whymark. Another really useful striker with 104 goals in 335 apps (1967-79). Later did some youth coaching at Norwich.
– No. 6. Old-fashioned centre-forward, Paul Mariner. A big lump with clump, but classier than that. 135 goals in 339 apps (1976-84).
– No. 5. Stylish and industrious up-and-down midfielder Matt Holland who snaffled more than his share of goals. 45 goals in 314 apps (1997-2003).
– No. 4. The brilliant John Wark. Not many midfielders rampage through England’s top division and Europe in a season collecting almost 40 goals as they go, but he did. Top player. 179 goals in 678 apps in three spells (1973-84, 1988-90, 1991-97).
– No. 3. Jason Dozzell. I liked Jason Dozzell, he was one of those attacking midfielders that just made things happen. A real asset. 73 goals in 416 apps across two spells (1983-93, 1997).
– No. 2. The Beat. Such a great footballer, cut low by injury. Kevin Beattie. Fantastic player. 32 goals in 307 apps (1970-82).
– No. 1. Possibly the most solid of central defenders with a great all-round game; brave, loyal, and scored goals. Terry Butcher. A genuine leader and a fine, fine player. 21 goals in 351 apps (1976-86).
‘But they’re all ‘past’ players’, you might say. And you’d be right. ‘But what about the current crop?’ you might ask. Well… sorry, but I’m afraid there aren’t any at the moment – and I am genuinely sorry about that. A strong Ipswich alongside a strong(er) Norwich is good for the region. Never mind, I’m sure Mr Lambert’s working on it. Anyway, moving on…
We shouldn’t forget those awful noughty years for City when, if Bobby Robson at his peak had popped his head round the door to assume command instead of, say, Glenn Roeder, Bryan Hamilton, or Peter Grant, even the most entrenched Canary would have been hard-pushed to say, ‘No’.
So, let’s extinguish those flaming torches, put the pitchforks back in the shed, and hope everything improves for both sides and hope they’re both soon battling it out again in the Premier League.
Incidentally, I wonder which Norwich City players Ipswich Town fans wouldn’t have minded turning out for the Blues over the years. Martin Peters, Grant Holt, James Maddison anyone? Perhaps someone over the border will respond? (Nicely, if possible.) Would be fascinating to compare notes…
OTBC
NB. Article data gathered from various sources; including Wikipedia, my memories, and Tim Hodge’s excellent site prideofanglia.com.
NB2. For a list of players who have played for both clubs, check out my earlier MFW article ‘Forbidden ground?’ here:
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Even the most die hard City supporter of a certain vintage (of which I’m one) would have to accept surely that Arnold Murhen and Frank Thijsenn would have added value to any team and they played a brand of total football straight out of their Dutch heritage. Sadly we couldn’t match them in that era.
Very good shout that Bob! Thijssen and Murhen were the exact same two names that went through my head as I subbed the piece. Imagine those two playing Farkeball..
But how many of the players mentioned would cope with the demands of football today? Under Daniel Farke and his tactics. Perhaps John Wark?
I read a few years ago that Butcher a Lowestoft lad had a trial at city and was one that got away.
Clive Woods was a city lad that got picked up by Ipshite and only came to us at the end of his career.
Then city gave snaffed a couple from under their nose as well Reul Fox for one.
Onwards and upwards
OTBC
Stay Safe and keep healthy 🙏
When I was a young ‘un there was great rivalry between the groups of lads from different housing estates in the City, Mods and Rockers type of thing. But we all grew up and life took us in different directions, we changed, most of us for the better. And it’s a bit like that between us Canaries and the Binners, we’ve gone our way and they’ve gone theirs. Would I have liked to see any of their crew in yellow and green? No way, unthinkable. At school my House colour was blue, hated wearing that jersey, the school (Hewett) colour was green and red hoops, acceptable. As to the players and manager who’ve gone to the blue, traitors.
Ha!
My house at Chigwell was Caswells and we always played [or ran] in green bought by our parents. But our *proper* school football sides always turned out in dark blue with white as a change top, which we didn’t get to wear very often.
At Senior Colt [under-18] level we had the school badge [a white bishop’s mitre] on the blue shirts.]
I wish I’d robbed one but I didn’t think of it at the time 🙂
I wouldn’t take any of them, no matter how good they are perceived to be.
And , if hand rubbing glee is the description, then I’m fully on board. I might have been a little more sympathetic in years past but, with Lambert in charge, they deserve all they’re getting right now.
And yes I know that’s not a very well thought out argument but it doesn’t need to be. I’m Norwich and they are are Ipswich. End of.
Actually I thought your point rather well put, and I respect your view.
Except ending anything with ‘end of’ really is the cry of the moron. It’s like believing you’ve scored in the playground (with a shot that went over the jumper), then calling the game over and marching home with the ball.
Please, one and all, never call time on a debate once stating your view.
That’s it (from me at least)
Ray Crawford scored 2 for Colchester against Leeds – redeemed!
As for John Wark always played well against us. 1992 spoilt Christmas playing a blinder in the 0-2 at Carrow Road. Seemed to remember he would turn it on for Liverpool when playing City
Well I was invited in so here goes.
Starting with modern day players, who would I want in our team? Krul and Pukki goes without saying. A solid goalkeeper, and someone who can score. Buendia – no. We have enough trouble keeping 11 on the pitch as it is. We have our own Aarons in KVY, though he has been injured for 18 months now, His return is expected like that of the Good Lord. So perhaps Aarons on loan. Gibson I would take and Hanley as well.
Going back eons, I would start with Ron Davies and Bill Punton. Would have liked Kevin Keelan as well, and also the straight-backed and long throw expert Hugh Curran. And in later years Ted Macdougall and even more Phil Boyer. I was always a fan of Graham Paddon as well. Martin Peters was one of my favourite players when at West Ham and I was envious when you had the pleasure of him in those years. Dave Watson would have been a good centre half to challenge our Osman and Butcher. Good players as they were the trouble with selecting players from those eras is the fact that in those times, and a direct opposite of current day, we were the superior team. So in those days quite honestly we wouldn’t have wanted many if any of your players. Watson or Beattie? No argument. Nowadays of course it is so different.
Other players to be mentioned in despatches so to speak, would be Rob Ashton and definitely James Maddison, and Wes Hoolahan. Our current player Alan Judge reminds me of Wes, only he is not as good. I remember Kevin Reeves as being someone handy, Chris Woods, and Rob Green both good goalkeepers. Wouldn’t have wanted Ian Crook – he could never make up his mind (irony) – and although Robert Fleck and Grant Holt did great things for you…. I just don’t like them. Craig Bellamy was another I didn’t like but I would have had him though.
This has been by no means a definitive list, I accept there will be some I’ve not remembered.
On this season, though it pains me to say it I believe you are destined for promotion, so derby days are a way off yet – unless you make a mess of the Premiership like you did last season – what happened after lockdown? – one of the highlights of this pandemic time. As for us, miracles may happen and we turn it round, otherwise we’ll be looking up at you for a while yet. That said there were times when you did that towards us.
Stay safe and healthy everyone.
Thanks Graham.
Great column Chris;
I’ve got my tin hat on, and would add Alan Brazil (even though he REALLY seems to not like us).
Amazing to think that of the 13 names mentioned so far, only 2 have been defenders.
They were so, so lucky to have Sir Bobby; a great, great manager, and by all accounts a thoroughy nice gentleman too.
O T B C
Thanks John.
Thanks to all the readers and commenters. Hope it was an interesting topic!
Best wishes all,
Cs
I think Trevor Putney proved that it was possible to be popular at both Portman Road and Carrow Road (and he is still popular at both) so IF some Ipswich star had decided to move to Carrow Road and performed then he would have been accepted. Realistically we would only have been an attractive move from 1986 onwards. I can’t think of many players who would have moved and made an improvement to our squad. However, there are one or two who might have been useful if we picked them up before they did. Whymark being a case and the likes of Bramble and Wright
Definitely Alan Brazil
Do Pele and Ossie Ardiles count ? 😉