It’s guest blog time again and today is the turn of Glasgow-based City fan Robin Ireland, who takes us on a UK-wide journey in an attempt to answer the question above…
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I moved to Scotland in 2018 (and met up again with my pal and another Norwich supporter, David, who I first met at UEA in 1974). Given Norwich City now boast three members of the Scottish men’s football team, this seems strangely appropriate. Scotland was also very welcoming to an incomer Norwich City fan. After all, everyone is welcome to live here.
But are we football fans as welcoming? In all the media frenzy about the European Super League, there was much discussion about ‘authentic’ and ‘traditional’ fans. The elite clubs’ owners talked disparagingly of ‘heritage’ fans. But what do these terms mean and do we care?
I was born in Leicester but moved to Greater London when I was aged two years. My dad had lived in various places in England and liked football but didn’t follow a particular team. As a Yorkshireman, he was more fond of cricket.
He took me to my first professional match in 1961, when I was aged six. We went to Stamford Bridge to watch Chelsea v Leicester City, and, in my teens, I followed Leicester City watching them occasionally in London when I was a wee bit older. It helped that there was no ‘local’ team, although I did pass Aldershot Town’s ground on the way to school.
However, it was only in my own struggle for identity and independence, when I moved to study my A-levels at Norwich City College in 1972 aged 17 (and effectively left home in the South of England), that my new relationship (later love affair) with Norwich City began.
I found myself strolling down to Carrow Road from St Stephen’s every other Saturday to watch a team newly promoted to the then Division One. Given I was not born in Norwich or Norfolk for that matter, that may make me a ‘plastic’ supporter in some eyes.
As we’re playing Liverpool on Saturday in our first match of the new season, I can see where Steven Downes was coming from in this piece from last year’…
https://www.edp24.co.uk/lifestyle/love-your-local-team-not-liverpool-1564218
But am I less of a supporter because I wasn’t born in Norfolk and haven’t been to a home match for several seasons? Ironically, I spent half of my adult life living in Liverpool but those experiences of your teens and early 20s stick with you like a particularly compelling piece of music, eh Martin Penney?
There are lots of football writers that are nostalgic about football before the Premier League but, although I hate the modern-day commercialism, I am not one of those. I was at Carrow Road when the Manchester United fans “took the Barclay” back in the day. It was scary.
I also went to Carrow Road to watch Millwall and my mate got kicked and badly bruised, and was there when it was completely ‘normal’ to hear racist chants and see bananas thrown on the pitch at the general direction of wonderful players such as Cyrille Regis even when the marvellous Justin Fashanu starred for us.
I am not remotely nostalgic about those days or the pitiful ‘facilities’ then available to female supporters.
But these experiences make me more sympathetic to less strict definitions of what a football supporter is and more cynical of the imagined traditions that us white male fans of a certain age talk about wistfully. I certainly don’t miss the fags, the violence, and the racism.
This week I came across a programme which reminded me of how I found out I was a Norwich fan. It is of all things, from the match between Norwich City and Leicester City on Wednesday 8th November 1972 in the Texaco Cup.
How many remember that?
It became the Anglo-Scottish Cup ironically after Texaco’s sponsorship ended. Peter Shilton and Frank Worthington were in the Leicester team that night and we had some illustrious names in our own including Kevin Keelan, Duncan Forbes and Dave Stringer. A great defence there, oh and Ron Saunders was the manager.
This was a two-legged affair when we’d lost the first leg 0-2 at Filbert Street. So, when we managed two goals of our own at Carrow Road (goals by Big Dunc and Terry Anderson according to the admirable Canary Citizens – sadly I can’t remember), it went to pens.
My first ever experience of a penalty shoot-out. And that’s when I knew I had become a Norwich fan! Nothing like testing your loyalty by penalties. I found my shouting had become green and yellow.
So, what makes a true fan and what counts as authentic, I really don’t know. I have seen Norwich play in Milan and Manchester and in Burton and Barnsley. I don’t think you can accuse me of being a glory hunter. But am I any more authentic than those fans who can only watch on their televisions or lap-tops?
Who am I to deny those who love the emotion and passion of watching ‘their’ team win (or lose)?
Oh, and we won that penalty shoot-out in 1972 against Leicester City, 4-3. Better than the pens I remember more clearly thirty years later at the Millennium Stadium.
Robin is an academic at the University of Glasgow who writes and researches about sport and commercialism.
Great piece, very emotive for me as as another fan with no traditional ties to Norfolk.
I don’t miss the old days either (Charmless Man Utd fans lighting their programmes and pushing through the fencing for one)
Thanks Bruce.
Love it. I was born just outside Norwich of pure Norfolk stock, but moved away when I was 2. As an Essex kid in the early 80s I supported Liverpool because the lure of winning is irresistible to small children and everyone supported them. It was them or that team managed by Bobby Robson.
I drifted away from football in my teens for the usual reasons but rediscovered NCFC in that first glorious Premier League season, and never looked back. But my roster is 5 or 6 away games in London (I got fed up of paying top dollar to watch us lose at Palace) and trips to the Carra barely into double figures.
So I consider myself a fan. And I’ve got the birthright. But I’m definitely less of a fan than Robin, and that’s as it should be. I know my place in the pecking order. And that’s fine by me!
(Tho I have done the one thing my Dad never did – made sure my kids have no doubts about what team they support. And to be fair, he in turn has done something he never did for me – match day trips from Essex to the Carra with my son and buys junior membership for him every year. So we’re trying to make up for our past failures)
So while I
I tried so hard with my daughters, Phil. I took them to a game when City actually beat Wolves 3-0. Should have been onto a winner. But it turns out they just don’t like football haha.
Hi Robin
Hi Robin
I enjoyed reading that.
Although I have had Norfolk connections from birth I cannot claim to be *born and bred* either.
Much of the 70s and early 80s passed me by in terms of watching Norwich City as I was living and then working in London. I’d guess that between 72-88 I saw us in London far more than at Carrow Road with White Hart Lane my favourite haunt. Spurs are still my second team to this day.
Since moving here permanently in ’89 I’ve missed less than half a dozen home league matches but does that make me any more worthy than somebody who follows City from his sofa?
I’m so relaxed about this topic that I don’t feel I’m the one to answer your question.
Thanks for the musical reference 🙂
Cheers Martin. I like the idea of a second team. Sacrilege in many eyes. I may try going to Partick Thistle – a neutral choice up here haha.
You could try Dumbarton, my first team and there’s cycle track pretty much all the way there from Glasgow
Thanks Paul. I should try that!
Loved it…although when you live in Australia you can only watch on the TV or laptop. I hope that is offset by having to get up and watch them at 2.00AM through the winter…unless I want to **spit** record it and watch the replay. Well done.
Love it, Gordon. Getting up at 2 a.m. is true sacrifice!
Hi Robin
Very enjoyable. Born and bred in the City, I finished my A levels at the college in 1972, but absent for most of my of my adult life.
I remember the Leicester games and the shoot out. I hope nobody has evidence to the contrary but I believe Kevin Keelan not only stood between the posts but scored with a thunderbolt penalty . I saw him take several with a style similar to his goal kicks.To this day I am convinced keepers should be amongst the better penalty takers as they take more set piece kicks than anybody else.
A true fan of not surly may be marked as how much the result spoils, or makes, your weekend no matter what else is happening.
Thanks again.
Blimey. We must have been doing our A levels at about the same time. I LOVED Kevin Keelan although I can’t remember that pen sadly.
No one who answers the question “Who do you support”?” With the answer “Norwich” is ever plastic – no glory hunters here.
It doesn’t matter if you go to every match or if you watch us on sky or listen to the final scores on the radio as long as you feel happy when we win and feel a negative pang when we lose – then you are a fan.
Having done university in Manchester for 4 years and taught and lived in Essex for 5 before moving “home” I love meeting Norwich fans with unusual reasons for supporting the canaries
I remember going to a pub in Bradford for an away game in the late 90s and at the bar the 2 blokes in Norwich shirts on my left had thick scouse accents and the two on my right had thick Yorkshire accents it made me as happy as Larry to hear them discussing who they wanted to start the game.
I remember talking to a hardcore Mancunian at Birmingham away who was a yellow because when he was a boy his postman in Manchester followed Norwich.
I got speaking to the librarian at my school in Witham which whose brother was raised in Ipswich in the 70s when the donkeys were at their zenith who chose us to be contrary and followed us all over the country.
The wierdest one was a teacher who as a very little kid in the Home Counties came across a discarded player card in the street and chose that as his team for life.
Haha. Love it. Thanks Seamus.
Hi Robin
My first game was back in the cup year if 59 and that when a family friend took me I was 9yts old.
I had a season ticket from 1969 to 1980 in the South Stand and like you remember the ManU debacle in the Barclay and the protests against Robert Chase.
Since I was 18 I have spent my life either in the RAF or working in places like Qatar, Gabon, Nigeria, Asian and even in North America and in most if not all have found like minded Norwich City supporters.
We all support our team in the best possible way for us and like Martin P I also follow Spurs who over the years have sold some of my favourite players ie Martin Peters and Jimmy Neighbour, Crooks, Culverhouse and loaned us Skipp.
I have now lived in Blackpool for longer than I lived in Gt Yarmouth and always thank Blackpool for selling us Hoolihan another legend.
I will be glued to my tablet fir the Loserpool game while having the test on TV
I’m Norwich born and bred of Yorkshire born parents, Caleys soon to become Mackintosh’s brought Dad to Norwich in 1949 and I arrived in 1955. I left in 1972 – my first Carrow Rd experience was v Charlton in I think 1963.although I have genuine recollections of grown ups talking of the 1959 cup run – Dave Stronger was my first City hero.Since leaving the fine City Ive lived in Cambridge, Ipswich (ouch) Reading and for the last 20+ years in Dublin – it’s never left me – “who do you support?” Norwich City the immediate response – in the early days it’s where I come from was the answer to the quizzical looks. Now no explanation required just pride!
Hi Howard
Small world – Mrs P had a school holiday job with Mackintoshes many years ago and I worked for my company BASF in Blackrock Dublin now and again over 20 years in the 90s-noughties.
Nearly always stayed in Donnybrook. Good times and yes everybody asks who do you support. My answer of *Norwich* followed by the next question with the reply of *Celtic* always seemed to go down well!
“Dave Stronger”! So true!
(Sorry, Howard, couldn’t resist it!)
We’re of the same vintage, Howard 🙂
I have enjoyed going to Blackpool as well in my time. Cheers Alex.
I have never lived in Norfolk but started supporting Norwich in 1959 for the simple reason that the publicity of the famous cup run told me that the club colours were yellow and green. So different from the normal red and white etc that they became my club and remain firmly so to this day. Having worked abroad for many years most of my support has been from the sofa but I am proud to say I have seen at least one live game per season since the early seventies.
My most memorable game?
The 3-2 win away to Villa that took us to the top of the league in 1992.
Ha. I’ve always liked beating Villa (on the few occasions we have). I was there at the last game of the 2018/19 season. Very satisfying.
I was born and brought up in Cromer, and went to my first match around 1957. I moved away in 1964 (Merchant Navy, then living in Harlow) till 1978, but never lost the love.
My son was born in Harlow, but was “brung up proper”, so much so that his nickname at school was “Norwich”. I managed to convert my son-in-law from Coventry into a City supporter, and my grandchildren all are true yellows.
Doesn’t matter where you go in the world, there always seems to be a Canary fan not too far away.
Defo. Had a trip to Portmeirion in North Wales a week or two back and spotted my first brand new Lotus strip.
I’ve never lived anywhere close to the Fine City and when it came to choosing my team when I was around 7 or 8 West Ham seemed a decent shout, Bobby Moore, Geoff Hurst etc. My wonderful grandmother from Saham Toney was having none of it and so the next 50 odd years have been in yellow and green.
Been to countless grounds around the country and that 24 hour bus trip to Vitesse.
Play off wins and defeats, cried with joy at the Friendly final and bitter disappointment, when cheated by Everton and Coventry .Partied all night in Portsmouth and seen more than my fair share of absolute dross, yup I was at Burton as well……..
But the joy, the sheer joy will be back again soon and I just can’t wait to be in row J in the Wensum area, seat 26 to see my beloved team against Leicester in a couple of weeks.
The walk to the ground, touch the shiny bit of flint on the wall for good luck, over the bridge, check out the badges for sale, no I do lot really need another one. Always take a walk round the whole ground and get in early. There is something I love about watching it fill up, the smell of the turf. Not sure what makes a real fan but after missing the penalty shoot out at Spurs as we had to get the last train I’m just so excited…….
Enjoy. I’m hoping to get to Carrow Road some time this season. It’s been a wee while.
Hi Robin,
There is an established Scottish Canaries group. Find it on Facebook as they no longer have their own website.
Good call. Thanks. I’m a founder member of Northern Canaries but mebbe …
Will be watching the match tomorrow with my pal on the Glasgow Southside 🙂
I was born in Derby and have lived there for all my 57 years It was holiday visits to my auntie who lived in Lowestoft she was married to a man from Sprowston and she used to go on about Norwich and sing a song “Jimmy Bone superstar, walks like a woman and wears a bra I was hooked l rarely go these days but between 1985 and 1995 was going to about 20 or 30 games a season but Norwich are in my heart and l follow them without attending matches and if that makes me a lesser fan that’s fine by me OTBC