How often have us Norwich City types come across the phrase *Boys against Men*? Quite a lot if you’ve seen its use as many times as I have recently – I’ve lost count in all honesty.
But on Tuesday night against Liverpool at Carrow Road there was a novel twist on the oft-used cliché.
The Boys won.
A largely second-string City selection were roundly and soundly put to the sword by a team of Liverpool’s brightest young things which included 20-year-old Curtis Jones, who was making his 50th appearance in a red shirt. He was joined by three debutants, as in the much-vaunted Kaide Gordon [who celebrated his 16th birthday earlier this year] and 18-year-old Conor Bradley. At halftime Tyler Morton, also 18, came on to replace Naby Keita.
The relentless high press forced more than its fair share of errors and at times this ridiculously youthful Liverpool squad made football look a very easy game indeed. Unlike Daniel Farke, I’m not going down the route of criticising individual players but Penaltygate Mk II cannot be swept under the carpet and that’s for sure.
When Dimitris Giannoulis, who at least looked like he was fighting to get a start over Brandon Williams, was brought down by Bradley, designated penalty taker Adam Idah was *persuaded* to give the ball to Christos Tzolis. We all know what happened next as a tame, down-the-middle effort was saved by the legs of yet another Reds’ youngster as in the rising star RoI keeper that is Caoimhin Kelleher.
Echoes of the incident between Robert Snodgrass and RvW during the Chris Hughton era and what the aftermath of that was anyone?
Farke called Tzolis out afterwards but as if there aren’t enough question marks against Grant Hanley already, why oh why didn’t he step in at the time? The captain is supposed to be the manager on the pitch after all.
If you’re li’l ole Norwich you don’t pay some £8million for a teenager and publicly say words to the effect of: *do that again and you’ll never get in my team*. Sorry Daniel, these are empty words as far as I’m concerned.
And as if we needed our noses rubbed any further in the doo doo, that loveable sense of humour often displayed at the Carra by travelling Scousers was in full effect as they sang their Luis Suarez song, so ironically to the tune of Depeche Mode’s *I Just Can’t Get Enough*.
I don’t blame them for singing it, but hearing it started to heat up my wee-wee nonetheless.
In the grand scheme of things, early dismissal from the Carabao Cup doesn’t bother me one jot. But a look at the immediate future doesn’t exactly fill me full of confidence regarding our Premier League security because whatever side we put out the basic individual errors are still there and I see no tangible attempt to eradicate them.
Teams know that if they press high, pick off an early mistake and score as a result of it then we won’t be coming back at them.
This week’s potentially good news is nothing to do with anything Norwich City have achieved on the pitch of course but more that HM Govt has agreed to allow certain sections of Premier League grounds to trial *safe standing* next year.
The pros and cons of that decision are worth a whole dedicated article of course but as I’m happy to sit in the Upper Barclay these days I’d better let one of the younger MFW writers have a crack at that topic.
For the first time I can recall, this musical selection is dedicated to the opposition rather than ourselves. The chorus relates to the body language exhibited by the majority of those players in a yellow shirt the other night.
Play it loud.
Good morning Martin.
Nothing, nada, nil…and unlikely to earn anything. You love your music themed football mix. It is no points, Eurovision Norwich. My wife says we will end the season without a single point unless there is massive improvement. I do not even want to think about that. I am hoping for a point from Everton after a terrible sh*t house performance from us in a bad tempered nil-nil draw. Lift off.
Morning Cobwatch
I’s funny you should mention that as I saw Stuart Webber speaking with a fella who looked a lot like Graham Norton the other day.
Your wife might well, unlike NCFC, have a point!
I’m not sure that we do bad-tempered 0-0s really and the one thing we know about Everton is that they play the game nicely so I’d say that’s unlikely. Lift-off? Let’s hope so.
Cheers
Got and expected nothing from the Liverpool game, but equally hoped for more. I swear Lambert used to lose cup games on purpose as it was the only time we used to play badly under him, whereas the modern day Norwich City it is now every week.
The Times were assessing the relegation positions and I thought it would be worth placing the article below. It makes interesting, if sober reading, especially the final sentence:
Norwich City
It is not looking good for Norwich, who have yet to pick up a point and have lost 15 consecutive Premier League games, stretching back to the season before last. There is not a lot to cling to for Daniel Farke’s team. In terms of expected goals, they rank 19th for chances created (4.63 xG) and 19th for chances conceded (10.64 xG). If you take out set pieces, and look solely at open play, then they rank 20th at both ends. They cannot create good chances and they cannot stop conceding them. It is a recipe for disaster.
Defensively, part of the problem for Norwich is that they exert very little pressure on the ball. Farke’s team allow 17.3 passes per defensive action they make — only Newcastle allow more. But Newcastle have by far the deepest defensive line in the league, and so they get away with playing like that, to a certain extent. Norwich still have a tendency to get caught too high, and as we saw in the Euros, scant pressure and space in behind makes you a magnet for through balls. Sure enough, only Leeds have conceded more than Norwich’s 17 through balls so far this season.
Before the season, there was some talk that Norwich were better equipped for survival than they were two years ago, and it is true that they have made some decent signings, in the likes of Ozan Kabak, Billy Gilmour and Milot Rashica. But that is more than counterbalanced by the loss of Emiliano Buendía, who was comfortably Norwich’s best player last time out. In 2019-20, Buendía ranked fourth in the league for open-play chances created, behind Kevin de Bruyne, Jack Grealish and Sadio Mané, and Norwich still finished a distant last. It is hard to be optimistic about their chances of survival now that they no longer have one of the best creators in the league, and do not appear to have fixed the fundamental issues which sunk them last time.
Hi IR
Thanks for sharing that – I must admit I hadn’t seen it – and they do seem to be spot on.
The situation with Emi leaving though was, to my mind anyway, all too predictable. By that I mean we don’t know that at the end of 2019-20 he was told one more year, help us get promoted and then you can leave with our best wishes, but I’d bet my boots on it.
Let’s not forget that rumour has it he doubled his wages overnight when he joined Villa and, for sure, the guy wants to break all the way through with Argentina. Could he have realistically done that by staying here? A moot point for sure.
Cheers
Okay, thanks for the ‘heads up’. it’s the hope that kills but if there’s no hope then fine.
Good news is with Bournemouth, Fulham and the Baggies most likely to return to P L next season, we can start planning for season 23-24 back in the P L. Next season will be shite anyhow with a two month Winter break for Qatar.
This coming weekend is going to be all about points, just 14 required to retain the Ryder Cup, let’s hope the ‘Postman’ can deliver. I’ll settle for a miserly 1 at Goodison, assuming we are not 4 down with 3 to play!
Hi Colin
I’m not particularly fond of golf [probably only because I’ve never played it] but I did see a feature this morning on Ian Poulter’s cars.
He puts CR7 firmly in the background 🙂
Martin what is there to say the talk sport guys unfortunately summed it up pretty well this time I think .
How long before webber has to go public about this must be hard for him but I think he needs to realise we need a defensive coach quickly a hard nosed old centre back like bruce or watson to shape us up at the back because he says he keeps telling about there defensive behaviour but nothing happens .
I also look at brentford with Ajer and wonder what if ,tall rangy what farke wanted but couldn’t get for the sake of another 7-8 million or so !
As floyd would say just another brick in the wall .
Hi Jim
I avoid talkSport but if you’re referring to the recent Cundy/O’Hara comments I’ve seen them on screen and I won’t disagree with you.
The irony here is that Farke’s no2 Eddie Riemer was a centre back so should have some nous on the defensive side of coaching, surely?
I’ve heard that we could halve your figure concerning missing out on Ajer.
Cheers
It is a bizarre situation all round Martin and pretty much ‘the perfect storm’!
The club’s return to the Premiership has to be exciting for the players just as it is for the fans, and footie is what the guys do for a living, it can’t really be seen as a day-job can it?
Four of the toughest fixtures of the season in the opening weeks just wasn’t fair on the guys, and I would like to meet the Premiership guy who organised those fixtures. My boot would end up in a dark place!
Although we lost against Watford (I inwardly groan at this point!) it was great to see the change it made to Pukki’s game with Sargent to play with for starters. I believe there’ll be a hat-full of goals from both of them when things settle down. Stick to two up front, going back to one would simply be dull and boring!
Kenny McLean’s miss-kick, and Ozun Kabak’s mistimed pass were obviously accidents, but it was weird they should both happen in the same game, and poor old Tim Krul’s blood pressure must’ve been sky-high!
Lets hope Tzolis’s penalty mishap was the end of our woes as he looks like a very talented young man, and he’ll definitely bring an energy to our games – again, when it all settles down!
For all the criticism Canary fans come out with, the team must know they’re loved and well thought of by the faithful – circa 27,000 at home matches turn up for the excitement the guys produce.
I guess some of this comes down to having lots of new faces in the team at the same time, so I also guess the problems should subside once these guys become well-known to each other, and start looking for ways to carry everything forward on the pitch..
I am at a total loss to know why anyone would want to stand at a football match – if anything NCFC should fit airline trays all round and hand out yellow-and-green napkins as we enter the ground – would be great – a few hard boiled eggs, some Cheddar, some Blue Vein, salad, a fine Chianti … if Delia gets really organised, we could see a sushi selection, or Norfolk turkey stew with dumplings and real ale!
I hope we stuff Everton, and I still think we’ll stay up, get their backs, Jacks!
COYY !!
Me too. All these doom and gloom merchants make me wonder if they ever actually played any team sport. Never too high, never too low. People who didn’t see promise in the last two performances need to get their eyes tested.
Hi sgncfc
Nowt wrong with a bit of positivity and I’m glad to hear that you can see some green shoots while some of us are struggling to.
The one thing I can safely say about the MFW team is that 90% of us have played *team sports* [especially football] a hell of a lot over a period of many, many years – with varying degrees of success, natch 🙂
Cheers
The only thing Delia will organise is the welcome home party for the Championship club next season.
England sing about 50 years of hurt since the World Cup win and it’s about time city supporters took up the theme and sang 25 years of hurt since she took over
Yep. To think that all the effort was made to oust Chase, only to get…. Delia Smith.
I think the ‘Delia-isation’ of especially the younger fans means that are conditioned into being more than content to returning to the comfort zone of The Championship. How times change…
As we discussed on a different article the other day, the irony hits all of us who were on the *Chase Out* campaign straight in the collective boat race.
I’d be interested to know whether it’s the old uns or the kids who are more susceptible to the conditioning. I’ve got no means of finding out of course but nonetheless I’d love to know!
Yes but Delia doesn’t see it that way, of course…
Hi Martin
Changes to hit all clubs next season no Betting Companies on the front of shirts so did we get out it time.
When ever you see Delia doing an interview she is dominant person and her other half chips in when she needs a breather.
I just wonder if she is the driving factor behind this ownership and he goes along just for the peace and quiet of life LOL
As successful a publisher as he is, I’m not too sure MWJ gets everything his own way all the time!
Enough already.
Hi Martin
In my long history of following city and like many other I have learnt to take the ridicule that comes with it especially from the family.
Most of the barbs are banter with the occasional one that hits a nerve but that’s life.
Tuesday was more disappointing because many were playing for their places and possibly like many others I was hoping to see the birth of a system that could take us slowly up the league.
Hanley had a stinker but so did Gibson and Andrew O and sadly none could cope with a 6ft 5 Origi.
I am a fan of our to keepers but so far this season when either of them have played the distribution has been poor and just put the pressure back on the rest of the defence.
Gunny is 6ft 6 tall and Krul is 6ft 2 for some reason neither of them use their hight or reach at corners or crosses whether it is Zonal or man marking the keepers need to take part and not wait to make a save.
Most strikers hate to see a keeper charging out to get a high ball as he knows he will get clattered and risk getting a card.
Defending from the front was a by word a few years ago on Tuesday the only Midfielder that helped out was Lees-Melou both Gilmour an Rupp offered very little, Tzolis backed up Dimi but Mumba had no help on the right so no really team effort.
Will DF continue with a back 3 with Aaron’s and William as wing backs I hope so with either Normann and Lees-Melou or Sorensen and Gilmour to add the attacking element.
Rashica, Sargent and Pukki up front Cantwell, Tzolis, Idah form the bench and we could spring a surprise and then again not.
Onwards and upwards
OTBC
Stay Healthy and Keep Safe
Hi Alex
Working all over the UK and Eire, I was always greeted with either ridicule [our Hadleigh business of course] to places such as Dublin, Liverpool and Manchester where everybody knew of us but very little about us. It all made for great banter anyway.
What Evertonians thought of Mike Walker is not fit for me to disclose here.
Very rarely does Krul come off his line at a corner although I think Angus was a bit more proactive the last time he was here. Zonal marking? I’ve never liked it but I’ve occasionally been called a dinosaur for saying so.
I reckon we’ve more chance at Goodison than we have at Burnley for what it’s worth.
Cheers
I agree Martin Tuesday night was not good, to say the least.
We really are in a right old pickle as my Norfolk born and bred City supporting Dad would say.
I really don’t know where we go from here. The crippling early fixtures and the plethora of reasons for this debacle are now becoming irrelevant. Players confidence is lower than a snakes belly. So the only thing that will turn this around is a point or 3 on Saturday.
To be honest I am not holding my breath, as Rafa is one of the last coaches I would not want to come up against at the moment with so many mistakes being made. He must be rubbing his hands with glee, like some James Bond villain.
Then its off to Burnley who if they lose to Leeds United on Saturday will have lost 6 home EPL games in a row. Along Come Norwich anyone ?
You asked the question earlier on here, Can a self-funding club survive in the EPL ? And we both agreed no. Let’s be honest even if Bournemouth, WBA or Fulham, none who are self-funding, get promoted next year they will be favourites for relegation so what chance have we ?
I agreed with you going out of the Caraboo cup was no big deal but and I know I sound like what I am, a old git who says it was better in my day but it was. Think about it, 3 consecutive League Cup semi-finals, 2 of which resulted in finals in the mid seventies was a fantastic achievement. That situation is now a distant dream.
Money has become the god of all football, the City players who won the League (Milk ) Cup in 1984 have reunions to celebrate, I do not think a Palace or a Newcastle will have a reunion to celebrate finishing 16th in 10, 15 0r 20 years time.
And unlike Cundy or O’Hara let’s not get carried away with Brentford’s start and start using them as an example of how to survive in the EPL. They have done brilliantly but look at Sheffield United. That didn’t end well.
To improve we have to find a way to beat the press, stop making such bad mistakes all over the pitch, get a settled team, start getting stuck in and attacking at a pace slightly faster than a snail who is on a caravan holiday.
Easy then !!!
Hi Tim
Yes Rafa does physically resemble a potential Bond villain as well. Perhaps his character could be called Camerero Gourdo.
The squad morale is fast becoming a major issue, whether we like it or not. And as for the high press, opponents do it because they know we’ll stuff up by playing out from the back.
Money has always been generated from football and always will be but I think, in this moment, that we have hit an all time low in that respect. Probably NCFC considers its supporters as much if not more than most clubs during these times of disenchantment for us older folks but I agree that the game was more magical all those years ago.
Having said that though, I’m really pleased that so many of the younger generation enjoy the game and not everything was perfect way back then to be sure.
Cheers
I like the name for Rafa Martin !!
It is very true not to look back to the “old days ” with totally rose tinted glasses as you say, as there was hooliganism, dreadful pitches, route one football, decrepit grounds and chairman who were as corrupt as the day was long.
I just feel a sense of disillusionment with the Premier league at present. I suppose if I was a Brentford supporter my outlook would be completely different.
Keep up the good work.
Morning Martin must say Hanley is looking suspect at this level Benitas hardley played him at this level with Blackburn may tell you something also giannolus was awol for two of the goals another suspect defender might do better in front of Williams as a winger as he has put in more crosses then anybody else with less game time I,m goin for a 11draw sat against a ten man Everton Godfrey get sent off keep well 😭
Everton are reporting an injury crisis as below I just wonder if come 3pm on Saturday they will all be fit
It is hardly a surprise to see Everton’s downturn in form coincide with injuries to Richarlison, Jordan Pickford and Dominic Calvert-Lewin, so the onus will certainly be on Townsend and Demarai Gray to continue providing the attacking inspiration lest they risk slipping down the rankings even further.
They’ve just sold James Rodriguez to some club in Qatar.
Hi Kev
You’ve been well Mystic with that prediction – I’d put some money on it if I were you!
See you after the break when we take on high-flying Brighton 🙁
Cheers
Hi Kev
I agree about playing Pukki with Sargent and obviously both were quite rightly rested against Liverpool – Sargent has been managing a minor hamstring issue for a while now.
I’m kind of questioning why we got both Tzolis and Rashica at the moment but we might see the logic behind it soon. I hope so anyway.
As I said in the original article, 40 years ago I could never understand why anybody would want to SIT at a football match but oh boy, do I know why now!
This really is a topic for one of our younger MFW guys to write about although I must say I’m open minded to the idea. If that’s what the youth want I can understand why.
I’m not so sure about the hard boiled eggs though. Most us would be fully capable of launching one fairly accurately into any given area of the pitch 🙂
Cheers
Hi Martin,
Yes, obviously the club is struggling, but I can remember having to repair a broken garden gate once, and I found it didn’t get fixed by cussing it!
I can’t explain definitively why 20-odd highly-talented professional footballers are stuttering on the pitch any more than you can, only they can fix it, the best fix we fans can provide after their initial disappointment, is to be stand-up supporters.
I can remember many of those same players getting the club’s fans through Goddam Covid lock-down, with style and skill though!
There are some ‘green shoots’, we’ve all referred to them, one is that if you watch Pukki’s goal against Watford, teams of galloping horses ridden by demons would not have made him miss, tons of determination in his face, along the lines of ‘Feed me, I’ll score’.
Tzolis’s willingness and desire levels are wonderful, just a case of not then, not there. Another day he’ll tear opponents a new one, so will Rashica.
The defence has looked nervous, and has lost possession very easily – one cure for that is don’t lose possession! Bore us to tears for a while keeping the ball to yourselves if you want, I don’t mind!
Play the Liverpool three-man central defence against Everton, give them our backing, see what happens – pretty sure they’ll be wanting to play it better and they’re more than capable of doing so.
In fact, pick relatively the same line-up that played against Watford, play it the same way, work like bricklayers to stop them scoring, feed the strikers, see what happens!
Normann looks safe as houses, poor old Kabak probably should’ve been introduced as a sub.
This NCFC chat site is my ‘go-to’ always stimulating articles written by good people who are fans also, understandably there have been a lot of angry comments on here for a while, not sure they’re productive any more.
Martin, we can’t have you throwing hard-boiled eggs around, its a waste of good food, if you don’t want them leave them on the side of your plate!
Cheers!
COYY !!
Thanks for the kind comment about the site, Kev. I agree that some of the more extremely critical comments are becoming unproductive, but the level of concern amongst us supporters is very high just now.
I quite agree with you about 3-5-2 as well. I am only one of many who has been pushing for it all season and I want to see it least a few more times. I think it’s far too early to tell if it is here to stay or not.
Actually I do like hard boiled eggs – especially in a salad Nicoise !
Not much to say about the football other than I can’t stand (or understand) zonal marking. Bin it and go man for man, so many goals are conceded from set pieces that either the players can’t play it or the coaches can’t coach it.
My eldest daughter had a very brief spell where she claimed to be an ’emo’ – I don’t think she or I understood what this meant. The best bit about it was that she introduced me to MCR’s belter ‘Teenagers’. Excellent song, thanks for sharing.
Hi Don
It’s on an album called *The Black Parade*.
The opener is *Welcome to the Black Parade*, which I hope I won’t have to cite on MFW in May, but you never know!
Cheers
Somehow Martin we all knew after just 4 minutes that we were not going to progress!! To lose to Liverpool isn’t an embarrassment, but with their side containing so many youngsters we really should have made a better fist of it. None of the players on show for us really furthered their cause to be included on Saturday did they?
Since nothing else seems to be working or happening for us at the moment, I wonder if a really left-field suggestion for a defensive midfield pairing of Sorenson (what’s happened to him??), and Omobamidele might improve things??
Both can actually play; both can tackle; and Omobamidele in particular is not short of pace. Farke made a defender out of Ben Godfrey who was a mid-fielder, no reason he could not do the same in reverse with Omobamidele.
It’s getting to the stage where we’ll have to be trying anything!
O T B C
Hi John
Good point about Sorenson – if he didn’t get a game on Tuesday, when will he?
As for Omobamidele, I read a feature on him in the Kildare Nationalist a few weeks back and the author did mention that he has played midfield before, whether holding or further forward it didn’t say. And as you say, he’s not short on pace.
Should be an interesting DF press conference at dinner time!
Cheers