When it comes to famous writers, many are entombed within the confines of Poets Corner Westminster Abbey, as in Geoffrey Chaucer, Lord Byron and Philip Larkin amongst shedloads of others.
These writers generally got their inspiration from sitting down at places like Tintern Abbey, skulking with understandable fear and dread in the horrific trenches of WWI or some lady who appealed to them at the time – I’m looking at you in the last scenario, Lord Byron, despite your attempts to fight in Thessaloniki for what you somewhat foolishly thought was a noble cause.
Unlike Lord Byron, I get my inspiration from taking one of our dogs, Geezer the Patterdale, out for a walk when the sun rises or goes down. While he roots around on the scent trail I amble along beside him, constantly ready to sprint at short notice if he finds some small furry creature he wants to hunt down. Which is often.
Yesterday Geezer and I had a silent but pertinent chat about Norwich City’s start to the season. He suggested to me that referees and refereeing should be top of the shop just now – and who am I to argue with a terrier in the prime of his life?
MFW commenter Tony said the other day that my instant take on the Tim Krul/Matej Vydra fisticuffs incident was wrong and quickly added that *media man* and ex-ref Dermot Gallagher said that the decision not to punish Tim Krul was the right one. Looking at it yet again I’m not totally convinced but Tony and Dermot’s knowledge of the interpretation of the laws of the game are both far superior to my own, so fair play to them.
Initial reactions from Ian Wright and the entire population of three and a bit stands at Turf Moor immediately declared that it was indeed a penalty. I’m just a guy who goes to games and yes of course I know the laws of the game but probably not all of the finer points as they are applied today. That’s just me being honest.
Many of us, both on this site and elsewhere, often flag up the issue of whether referees are influenced by particular big stadia environments or certain coaching teams. Maybe, maybe not.
Believe me, I have a dislike of Simon Hooper and would be grateful if he never refereed us again. But the one thing I must say to counterbalance that is that I absolutely hate it when some eejits suggest referees are *bent* and *bribable*. I have never seen any evidence of that and while I’m generally a cynical old $od I simply do not believe it to be true.
When it comes to MFW, writer Mick Dennis is a qualified referee and also a mentor to some officials coming through the ranks. Commenter Don Harold is a qualified referee too and they both know far more than I do about the *trade*, if I dare refer to it as that. I guess it’s a profession at the top level these days and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
My sole experience of refereeing was helping out my old teacher mate Nick nearly 40 years ago at a primary school in Loughton, Essex, when he simply wasn’t available himself due to other pressures. I wouldn’t be allowed to do it now without a CRB check but in 1983 that wasn’t an issue, so I did.
Dogs’ abuse wasn’t in it. Not the kids on the pitch but some of the parents on the touchline. One or two didn’t even stay behind the white lines. I didn’t feel intimidated or worried as such but I vowed I would never referee again – even a park match – and stuck to that decision. If I want to hear the *C* word I’ll go to my local boozer where I know the lads don’t mean to use it.
There is a lot more to being a referee than many of us might imagine and in my view, while we might disagree with their decisions [especially when they go against NCFC 🙂 they call them as they see them.
I think it was Mick D who said the best advice for a fledgling referee is to *give what you see*.
I checked with Geezer and via a gentle growl he agreed with me that maybe we should cut referees some slack. After all, we’d all be lost without them, wouldn’t we?
That’s about as poetic as Geezer and I get so it won’t be Poets Corner for us but in a wild flight of fantasy on yesterday’s walk we questioned what John Keats would write if it were an ode to a Hooper rather than to a nightingale.
It probably would have been quite reasonable though – upper class Victorians were very polite on the surface.
**I’ve just been presented with a fantastic book written by one Gareth James, entitled: *Norwich City – On This Day* and I thought I’d share October 6 with you good folks as in:
1971. Craig Fleming was born in Halifax, Yorkshire. He formed a brilliant centre-back partnership with Malky Mackay that helped City to a play-off final and promotion. He was named player of the year in 2004 and played every minute of the 2004-5 season, the only City player to do so.
And as many of us will remember singing: there’s only one F in Fleming.
I was at the game Martin, sitting to the right of the goal at the time thought Krul had put it out for a corner. Having seen a replay off it he didn’t get the ball and punched Vydra in the face , it is hard to say if a penalty should be given as Krul was going for the ball and full marks to Vydra for sticking his head in there to try and win the ball knowing Krul was coming. Very similar to a Chelsea v Norwich game I went to a few years ago when Ruddy punched Drogba’s lights out while going for the ball and think I’m right in saying no penalty was given.. Getting back to Saturday, Burnley seemed to want a penalty every time it went in our box, Found it strange coming from a team who like to kick and bully teams into submission, they had 3 or 4 bookings in first 30 minutes one of which should have been a straight red. I personally would rather listen to Dermot Gallacher’s view than Ian Wright and co.
Hi Martin
Your description of the event certainly tallies with my own although I wasn’t there – I very rarely go away these days I’m afraid. Bet you got soaked to the skin 🙁
Ruddy certainly took no prisoners and was quite a hefty old lump as well. I remember the Drogba incident as well. Gunny was just as aggressive as Ruddy and I don’t think we’ve had a keeper of that ilk since JR. Believe me I don’t want to discourage Krul from coming for the ball – in fact he doesn’t do so enough.
Like Tony said yesterday you are quite right to agree with Dermot Gallagher. I hadn’t read what he’d had to say when I wrote the previous article.
Thanks – good comment.
Hi Martin
I think the answer to the question is, was it clear and obvious ? Absolutely not.
The fact that Marty’s favourite ref didn’t immediately point to the spot it wasn’t a penalty. I looked at it 5-6 times and I still think we got away with one but in the first instance it was extremely debatable. So no penalty under VAR rules.
However Mr M B Harper being ever the optimist felt we still should have won 2-0 !!!😂
Hi Tim
Probably the most debatable decision for a while now – certainly only Kenny McLean’s *equaliser* being ruled out against Leicester comes anywhere close to it this season anyway.
Cheers
The trouble Mr P is TV, they analyze every kick, tackle etc. Yet Freakish or some other actor goes down it a foul. No matter. The only to stamp out the theatricals is ignore them. If Krull came through group of players to punch the ball and got a striker or even sometimes his own man. How on earth is he meant to pull out when in mid airn and in a split second. ?
Remember in a world cup match Vs France, German Harald Schumacher keeper pole-axed a French player. Was disgusting.. No booking or even a foul.. the French player was out for the count.two teeth knocked and cracked ribs 1982 semi end 3-3 first WC to go to spot kicks. Almost forgotten, as will Timm,s incident.
All these pundits stopped playing years and at end of the just there view. Suppose Wright, Shearer never made a bad tackle and got away with it. Total dogs dangle bits
Hi Lad
You’re quite right – the Krul incident will indeed be quickly forgotten.
Not so sure about the Schumacher-Battiston one though. I could be wrong here but I don’t think Battiston ever played again afterwards?
Shearer certainly did some naughties in his time although I can’t recall Ian Wright being the same, but as I’m no Palace or Arsenal fan I might well have missed a few tricks!
Cheers
Battiston went on to have a long career, including playing in the 1986 WC and winning the 1984 European Championship. His career ended in 1991.
Thanks for that – at least I had the common to say I wasn’t sure 🙂
Oh, and he won 4 more Ligue 1 titles after that and is 7th in the all time list for most Ligue 1 appearances!
Hi SJ
I know precious little of French football so thank you for putting me right once more. As I remember it Battiston ended up with a mouthful of broken teeth and a serious spinal injury but it’s terrific to know he got back onto the pitch with such great effect.
Thanks a lot for your input.
As regards Shearer Martin, I bet Neil Lennon may have an opinion on that !
I think head and kick spring to mind.
There have been so many intransigents I could name if I had time to recall them all but for now how does this sound:
Kevin Muscat, Barry Horne, Vinnie Jones, Norman Hunter, Tommy Smith, Chopper Harris and… Carl [I’m ‘ard, me] Bradshaw!
Trevor Hockey!
I did qualify as a referee (30+ years ago), but I was rubbish at it-although that doesn’t stop me from having an opinion on how other people perform!
I think that all the contentious decisions this season, including Saturday’s, have been just about right. Certainly not wrong enough to make a great fuss about. I’m with you in thinking that none of the refs are bent, but I do think that there are some who are more influenced by circumstances than others; who wouldn’t be slightly put off by the prospect of a Fergie hairdryer?
I hope Geezer continues to offer wise counsel.
Hi Don
I was speaking to my Arsenal mate Dave this very morning and he recalled an occasion at Highbury back in the day when Fergie shouted from the bench to Roy Keane *get in his face*, and the referee [he thinks David Elleray] was constantly snarled at by Keane & Co after every decision that went Arsenal’s way.
Dave strongly suggested that Keane was shouted at because he’d forgotten an inbuilt instruction at Carrington as in: *make the Ref’s life hell*.
How true that is I dunno but it has the ring of accuracy about it.
I assure you that Geezer knows his stuff and never fails to give me guidance.
Cheers
Looking at the event in real time I couldn’t definitely decide either way and therefore the ref made what would have to be considered an honest and therefore appropriate decision.
Looking again in slow motion it looks like we got away with one but this is all part of sport, you win some, you lose some. We all moaned that VAR took the immediacy and excitement out of the game and to speed matters up the cost maybe some very borderline decisions go the wrong way. I know which I’d rather chose.
As a footnote I once turned up to watch my local team and was persuaded to run the line. When the opposition scored they all looked at me for an off side decision. It was at this point I realised I’d been watching the game rather than whether anybody was off side, human nature.
Hi John
You win some you lose some – too true.
Your story about running the line made me laugh. Some 40 years ago in the Harlow League we always had a referee but rarely linesmen unless it was a latter-round Cup game.
More often than not our sub or assistant manager would flag the way we were kicking with the oppo doing exactly the same. Not very many offside decisions came under those circumstances!
Cheers
Cheers
Hi Martin
A good read no digs for me just a grandson who’s nearly 3 and we walk on either Cleverley or Fleetwood beaches not yesterday as it would have needed a Noah’s Arc with the amount of rain.
Tennyson the longest served Poet Lauret and his epic In to the Valley of Death one of my favourites.
Referee’s usual get bad press and are never liked by either set of supporter and that could go one way or the other if they start to explain each major decision like in Rugby.
Who ever was the Ref at the Loserpool V ManC lost the plot and even Gallagher could explain how Milner didn’t get a second yellow Silva could have got seriously hurt.
It’s now England away to Andorra on ITV Saturday at 8pm then home to Hungary on Tuesday so let’s hope for 6points then everyone returns to the fold for the following weekend.
Onwards and upwards
OTBC
Stay Healthy and Keep Safe
Hi Alex
The only Tennyson poem I can recall is the *Ladie of Shalott* and I bought a print of the related JW Waterhouse painting at the Tate about 50 years ago which has been above the mantlepiece in every house I’ve ever lived in. Dunno how that survived the moves cos quite a few other things didn’t 🙂
We certainly don’t want any injuries with so many of our lads away but at least Josh Sergandt doesn’t have to fly home from Noware Arizona at stupid o’clock this time around.
I think six points for England would be a very safe bet. Mind you I didn’t know until the other day that Andorra play on a plastic pitch which brings all sorts of issues, of course.
Cheers
Simple: Vydra should have been booked for dangerous play to himself!
Hi ScotCan
I always like an original take on matters!
Cheers
You have the pundits shouting about the keepers get to much protection then seconds later you hear the same fools claim that Midfielder or Strikers need protection what happened to it being a contact sport.
If they all need protection why do they play the game.
In American football their is so much padding that the players tackle regardless of the risk to themselves or opponent it has now be suggested that the helmets causes more brain damage than it stops and it also obscure your side vision
Will we soon see FIFA get a big back hander to make teams wear similar fancy dress to American Football Loserpool would look dapper on tights, bulging shoulder pads and a helmet with bars on the front maybe that would stop the spitting but what an image
An image I’d rather not contemplate I’m afraid. Todd’s Alice band might become a little problematic under an American football helmet.
I cannot get into baseball or American football. I once went to watch Norwich Devils when they played at the Hilditch Hilton, aka Plantation Park in Blofield and although a couple of my friends stayed until the end, rather more of us didn’t.
To counterbalance that I don’t mind a bit of ice hockey – my Hungarian neighbour is a massive fan – and I love GAA Hurling to the extent that I can claim to be a follower of the Corcaigh Rebels. I’ve seen them play on their own turf anyway, which is more than some London-based Man Utd fans can claim!
In my late teens I played minor club and college hockey and was “invited” to be our nominated umpire one week. That this came shortly after being sin-binned several times for patiently and politely pointing out the umpire’s failings (well, probably not patiently, or that politely) was no coincidence.
I soon discovered how hard it is and how bad at it I was. ***
But in hockey there is a much stricter ethos and much less money at stake. That used to be the case in rugby but since people started to earn a living from it the level of dissent and even simulation (e.g. pretending to have taken a hit just after the ball has gone) has increased enormously. Trying to reform long-embedded habits in the world of football is as difficult as trying to get rid of misogyny in the Police. I can’t imagine why anyone would take up the job these days (reffing, not policing).
*** Having said that I wasn’t as bad as one guy who wanted to send someone off for “persistent offside” on the grounds they were trying to cheat. Luckily the opposing captain stepped in and put an end to that. Just imagine how different Hucks’s career might have been with that fellow in charge….
As for Vydra, he should have been penalised for heading Krul’s gloves and stopping him clearing properly. (See, I’m still not very good at it…)
Hi Keith
I hope our MFW team member Martin MacBlain gets a chance to read this as he’s a qualified hockey coach at what I would imagine to be a fairly high level.
Never played it myself, mainly because it wasn’t on offer at my secondary school. We were strictly winter football, summer cricket although Tennis thrived too for a few of us which I was very grateful as I was probably better at that than anything else. I played all three of these sports for many years after I left school. Still do play tennis once a year with number one son but my back screams at me to stop. Best of one these days I’m afraid 🙂
As for Police I’ll be careful as I did three years with the Met nearly 40 years ago. Misogyny was even more of an issue then than it is now.
Cheers
Hi Keith/Martin.
I do always love a hockey analogy!
Keith is indeed correct in that hockey has a much stricter ethos. Backchat is barely tolerated (doesn’t stop it from occurring all the time though) and umpires are swift in admonishing those culpable for any misdemeanour.
I always feel football could learn a lot from hockey. When I took up the sport in 1990, the games were very similar. Hockey has evolved beyond recognition and is such a better sport for doing so.
The use of cards being one such example.
A green card – 2 minute sin bin
Yellow – 5 minute sin bin
Red – leave the field of play and 30 day ban from both training and playing, but also spectating!
This allows umpires to punish offences without too much disruption, teams have to play with 10 men for any misdemeanour, and let me tell you, they don’t half get it in the neck from their teammates if they get a card. Wonderful use of peer pressure….
If whomever brought down Kabak had had a 5 minute sin bin offence, it may have altered the outcome of the game. A yellow card to me seems rather pointless, other than an accumulation results in a small ban.
As for poetry, I was always a fan of The Charge of the Light Brigade!
Hi Martin
Thanks for the lucid explanation of how things work in hockey – Keith will appreciate it more than I but it was very interesting nonetheless.
That line *into the valley of death rode the six hundred* in the Tennyson poem kind of sticks with me. As I’m so demoralised by the TV news just now I might just look up the rest of said poetry as a bit of light relief from Boris & co.
Cheers mate.
In my opinion it was dangerous play and because of that it should have been penalty and red card for Krul. Also some games suspension too. Referee have difficult to see things like that, everything happen so fast. Var should have at least give him a chance to watch situation again.
In Finland its not easy to find referees to lower league games. There has happened violence, life threats, fights.. We dont play here games between lower and higher league teams like you do in cups.
Teemu Pukki has been one of the interviewed players during the national team break. He seemed to believe Norwich chances to avoid relegation, but it was same 2 seasons ago. I kind of believe that last time he tried to carry Norwich by himself out of relegation and found it obviously impossible task. When he plays for Finland he seems more relaxed, even he did made obvious mistake when he was not enough fit to play in euro20 tournament and still forced himself to play. Press in here has been very kind for him by that.
Hi 1×2
As always, interesting to find about the game in Finland.
Our referees in the UK are treated very well financially. Even in our National League [division five] they are extremely well remunerated financially. Put it this way they can earn far more on a Saturday or a midweek evening than UK workers could earn on overtime.
Most of our refs at this level are youngsters who want to get noticed and climb the ladder but there are some who realise that they are either not good enough or fit enough physically to progress beyond these lower levels and stay there for life. Further down the ladder many have full time jobs and referee on top of their salaries.
Many enjoy it, believe it or not, but it would not be for me. I am sure they get threats here too but any manage to ignore them as they are very often empty threats.
I read the interview with Teemu Pukki you refer to and he seems like a sensible guy without a big head. If the media approach him he will usually speak but he does not specifically seek attention for himself.
I’m sure all Norwich City supporters would join me in wishing Finland good luck in your internationals, particularly the one that matters!
Kiitos
I can guess that referees gets paid there, because you go to watch games and buy local club merchandise stuff. Here even biggest club HJK has had only 1000 spectators in last league games + championship battle is very interesting. So, do not anyone believe claims that finns go outside in every weather. Its basically opposite and now its been about +13 C but it can rain so its embarrassing performance. In Norwich area there looks to be living about 240 000 people, in Helsinki area lives about 1,5 million people. It would mean that when Norwich FC plays there would be only 150 spectators. In ice hockey, clubs are announcing spectator figures which have often no reality. So if you walk during the game outside ice hockey hall and they see you, they will count you as spectator. Also juniors and their parents and free tickets which can be thousands are counted no matter are they there or not. Finland-Ukraine game will be at least 30 000 spectators and its real figure.
You are surely right about Teemu, he looks to be rather avoiding media. I just wish he could stop been so hugely self critical.
I actually think that Pukki has his attitude to the media spot on as in he will speak with them respectfully if he has to but rarely pushes himself forward.
In the UK he is just another striker but perhaps when he is back in Finland for a while he is happier to speak with his fellow countrymen. I do not know for sure as some footballers are shy while others love the attention.
We have ice hockey in the UK which tends to focus on certain hotspots such as Nottingham, Cardiff and Scotland. I’ve never been to a game but our neighbour in Norwich is Hungarian and says he is very frustrated as he loves the sport but it’s about 150km to the nearest rink, which is probably Nottingham.
No I do not believe Finns always go out in every kind of weather, but we have two dogs so we certainly do. Not always for very long though!
Great column Martin, and excellent comments.
I think I would prefer to side with Gallagher rather than Wright -he of the post match comments on Norwich when he continually does not know (or refuses to acknowledge) any of our players’ names!
I qualified as a referee 40 odd years ago, but only because the team I was playing for were in a league which insisted every club had to have a “qualified official” and I was the only one who volunteered!!
Whilst there have been some excellent referees in the past, we’re now at the stage where some of them (I’m looking at you Mr. Dean!!) think that they are more important than anything else on the day.
My grandson aged 15 has just started officiating at matches for under 9’s and under 10’s – and has already been receiving naughty words and rather more from the parents of these young players.
O T B C
Hi John
One thing that I didn’t put in the article is that at school if we didn’t feature in the Senior Colts side [under-16s] for a particular match, two of us would be assigned to under-12 coaching as in playing one on each side while all we really wanted to do was cheer our mates on from the touchline.
I remember this happening once with me who had no skill whatsoever but a fair bit of pace on one side and my mate Hugh Burbidge who was an extremely dexterous player on the other. God knows what the first years made of that!
Most teams I played for had to have a qualified first aider but I’ve never heard of the qualified official bit before – it could have been in place and I had never head of it of course. Our standards weren’t too high at Slagheap Rovers!
Cheers 🙂
Was it a penalty? Probably. Do they ever get given? No. Should they? Maybe. Would I have felt us hard done by if it was? Yes.
Hi Dave
I think, as others have said, that *Krulgate* should be quickly consigned to history!
Cheers
Not a chance was that a pen. He clearly gets the ball prior to catching the player. Whether Vydra got there first is irrelevant. Krul played the ball, got the ball, then some of the player with the follow through. Welcome to football.
Hi Daniel
I’m as pleased as punch [geddit] about the decision and of course I know what you’re saying about the momentum – of both players, in all fairness.
But if Timmy Krul touched the ball I’d better contact a well-advertised national chain of opticians pronto!
Cheers
Martin you should start writing for ‘Reader’s Digest’, you dooo spin a yarn!
I had an opinion about Krul v Vydra when it happened, I checked out all the ‘slow mo’ replays, and heard Lineker and Wright lambasting referee Kevin Friend Saturday night. My opinion hasn’t changed – NO penalty for me, and thats not even a partisan opinion,
I was glad to see Tim Krul dominating his 6-yard box, that’s what its there for. The collision between Krul and Vydra was in my opinion inevitable when a keeper and a striker both go for the same ball close to goal. To his credit I don’t believe Vydra made much fuss about it.
I honestly thought referee Kevin Friend had a very good match, he was bright, sparky, kept up with play, gave both teams a bit of latitude – sometimes pundits, players, fans and managers have to ‘know when to fold ’em’,
Ian Wright was quite strong in his condemnation of the clash, and of the referee overall. I think Lineker followed him up with the opinion that keepers get too much protection anyway. Certain sure that on the balance of play, I’ve seen more keepers injured by rampaging strikers, than I’ve seen strikers injured by defending keepers.
And … its all academic anyway!
COYY !
Hi Kev
Readers’ Digest I find quite complimentary actually – it beats the usual Beano comparison some of us journos get hit with anyway!
Seriously the best point you make is that it it is indeed all academic now and as I agreed with somebody else above it will now quickly be forgotten. And good of you to mention that Vydra didn’t big it up at the time because I should have said that in the original article – of course I should have done as it is true.
I do speak with Geezer the dog though – no yarning there. Like most MFW readers he doesn’t always agree with me but we have the necessary rapport noetheless.
Thanks – a really enjoyable comment at the end of a long day.
I qualified as a referee around 1970, and have refereed both adult and under 9s, so I don’t envy any of the professional refs. I wasn’t at the ground, and have only seen tv views, which seem to show either Krull or Vydra getting to the ball, depending on the angle. When it’s that tight, the ref can only give what he honestly believes, and in this case, it was that Krull got there first. Krull was entitled to go for the punched clearance, it happens dozens of times every weekend. Vydra was also entitled to go for the header. It’s just unfortunate that the two came together like that, but both were only looking at the ball, so there was no intent by either party to injure the other. It was nice to have a ref who wasn’t influenced by the crowd or Sean Dyche.
Hi Jim
Yes that’s a very objective take on the whole shebang and retrospectively, like a few other commenters today, I think you are right.
The most salient point you make is that both Vydra and Krul only had eyes for the ball.
Well summed up – thank you.
If you have to watch it twice it is not a pen. Dermot Gallagher admitted it is not a pen as he had never seen one given. And if a clash of heads is not a pen then why would it be a pen if gloves and head contact almost simultaneously? Also, there are loads of times when a player shoots and misses and a defender contacts the forward afterwards and no foul is given – how is this any different? Vydra has missed anyway – in similar fashion.
Hi Tony
Having heard Dermot Gallagher of course I take his word for it and I agree with you that it’s never a bad thing to hear from an expert. It’s not often I’m unclear on the letter of the footballing law but this incident found a big gap in my knowledge that has now been filled, thanks to Dermot Gallagher and your goodself.
Cheers
Following your lead, I consulted Monty the Patterdale cross. In between chasing squirrels, he told me that as neither club on Saturday was a ‘big’ club, VAR weren’t interested in overturning anything.
I think his tongue may have been firmly in his cheek!
Hi James
Following my lead – I like that one!
Terriers sure do *love* squirrels if you see what I mean.
I’d keep talking to Monty [great name for a dog] if I were you. Geezer agrees with him when it comes to VAR and *big clubs* – I’ve just asked him.
A lovely comment that made Mrs P and Minnie our Russell laugh as well.
Cheers