After a heavy old weekend on MFW, which attracted some great comments from you lovely readers on which were basically two different takes on the same thorny topic, I thought I’d endeavour to lighten the mood a little this morning by looking forward [if that’s the right turn of phrase] to our Third Round FA Cup tie against Charlton Athletic at the Valley on Sunday.
I have no conception of what type of side we will be able to field. It could be the last men standing, but as we would not have put out a full-strength team against the Addicks in any case I am not overly concerned about that and who knows, maybe the likes of Jonathans Rowe and Tomlinson or Tom Dickson-Peters might get a run-out. All three will almost certainly be on the bench and, if fit, I would expect to see Kieran Dowell and Bali Mumba start as well as Jacob Lungi Sorenson.
So as we prepare to take on new manager Johnnie Jackson’s South London outfit I will make a confession – I have only been to The Valley once in my life and that was in 1976 to see The Who supported by the Sensational Alex Harvey Band.
Me and my mate had to walk all the way home from Charlton to Chadwell Heath and that took us literally all night. But by any god you might believe in it was worth it as both bands were awesome. Allegedly it was the loudest concert ever in England. It sure felt like it.
Looking back I have few happy memories of Norwich City in the FA Cup but certainly a few sad and disappointing ones. I won’t dwell on the Everton semi-final, which we lost when Chippy Crook sliced a clearance onto his own bar at Villa Park and Pat Nevin tapped in the rebound. The slowly filtering news coming through from Hillsborough put everything into perspective. This was in the days of transistor radios so the enormity of the incident took a long time to assimilate.
I went to the Dell and sat on the wooden trestles as we ground out a 0-0 against the Saints in 1992. In the replay, we won 2-1 and Southampton were reduced to nine men after atrocious fouls from [of all people] Matt Le Tissier and more predictably Barry Horne. Chris Sutton’s scruffy extra-time winner was a thing of beauty to 90% of an inflamed Carrow Road crowd.
This victory led to one of the worst days of my City-supporting life and you know what’s coming. Yes, the semi-final against Sunderland.
Muggins drove Vince, Richard and Wayne and myself from Blofield to the match. We travelled home minus Vince’s flag and scarf which he gave to a Sunderland fan saying he’d never go away for Norwich again. To the best of my knowledge, he stuck to that principle although I haven’t seen him for a few years now so I can’t be sure.
We stopped at Newark KFC on the way home and an old boy in a Barbour [remember them?] and City scarf turned to me and asked: “What do you think of that then?”
I replied with “We were carp”.
He looked at me with steely eyes and said: “We weren’t that good”.
Since then nothing much really sticks with me except taking my son to watch us play Dagenham & Redbridge sometime around the turn of the millennium. We scraped a 1-0 thanks to Zema Abbey very late on, so at least Josh and I can say we saw Zema score at Carrow Road. There aren’t many of us in that position, of course.
I didn’t go to the Fourth Round match at Carrow Road against Luton in 2013. You remember that one when we became the first Premier League side to be knocked out of the FA Cup by a non-league outfit. I can’t remember why I didn’t go [probably work] but I am very glad that I didn’t.
We’ve had relatively recent good performances against Tottenham and Chelsea, which ultimately didn’t lead to anything although Daniel Farke always said he was a fan of cup competitions so maybe we were well up for it on those occasions.
This time around I’m not expecting very much at all in South London. Charlton are comfortably mid-table in League One so may very well field a very strong side because I bet they fully expect to turn us over.
The trouble for me is that I would not be at all surprised if they did.
I know I haven’t acknowledged the ’59-ers but that’s only because I spent most of that year learning to walk and use the potty properly – but I still have a couple of friends who remember those times with great affection.
Returning to the MFW ‘weekend of discontent’ I’ll leave you with this gem from a Red Top columnist yesterday. Make of it what you will.
“Norwich fans telling Billy Gilmour to *f*** off back to Chelsea*, be careful what you wish for.
“Lots of lovely folk support and work for the Canaries and you can understand the frustration around Carrow Road.
“But after this incident and yet another dismal effort at competing in the Premier League, few will shed a tear if [when] Norwich f*** off back to the Championship”.
There is footage of The Who at Charlton but it’s very poor quality so I’ll offer you this instead:
Good morning Martin and looks like being the last mild day for quite some time, so off to make the most of it shortly!!
Should it be into the : Valley: of Charlton rode the depleted NCFC team and their fans.
My only memory of the ground was going there to witness the ‘Admiral’ head us into the Championship. The train journey home was quite memorable as well, as all but 2 of the seats in the carriage were occupied by drunk and or delirious NCFC fans, apart from a middle aged couple who got off at 1p5wich. I did feel a little bit sorry for them.
Moving on. I see an article on today’s EDP website where ‘the Mayor’ is saying that pundits predicting that we’re already relegated is driving the players on to prove them wrong!!
I would suggest that he’s strapped to a chair in front of a large screen TV and is forced to watch replays of the games V Arsenal and Palar53 and then asked to give his HONEST opinion of the team’s and his own performance!! ☹️
Morning Ed
Bright & breezy in the City this morning which is more that I can say about the team.
I know what you mean about the train journey. In a reverse sense I left Wembley very soon after the final whistle and was one of only three City fans on the tube which was packed with disappointed Boro fans. They were incredibly gracious and what I thought might have been a bit awkward was actually anything but. Real football people.
Your point about the Mayor is a fair one I must admit!
Cheers
Morning Mr P, for once I have lost interest in this pending cup game,, could not care a flying wotsit which way it goes. Would not surprise me to see a Charlton victory, they might just have a bit more to play for. Sadly I was there for the Luton embarrassment, also at Villa Park, with my tranny listening to events unfold at Hillsboro, day I will not forget. Also at old Trafford when Heath and Bolland saw off United, then expecting a similar result when Sheff Wednesday visited in next round. Sadly did not work out that way. Just left school working as apprentice Decorator for £3-50pw.
I somehow managed to squeeze in to the Old Lads Club in King St, to see The Who, part of their Tommy tour., Had to look it up December 1970, probably my belated birthday present to my self. Loud yes, good ..bloody hell yes.
Saw several great bands, Floyd, at the old Industries club, in Oak St Also Genesis at UEA, are couple of highlights. Was only remembering those the other day on my Norwich History Group on Facebook.
As to football it can stay on back burner for this weekend,. Anything around our club just feels depressing .
Hi Lad
Like you I don’t really give a rat’s butt about Sunday but I would like to see a couple of the more promising youngsters getting a runout.
I lived in London throughout the 70s so had no idea The Who played the Lads Club or that Genesis played the UEA. Biggest band I’ve seen there are the Manics – all three times back in the 90s.
As for Genesis I was never a fan although strangely Selling England is probably in my top 20 albums of all time – they just hit a sweet spot for me with that one.
Never saw ’em live.
Cheers
Morning Martin. I can’t agree with the general consensus surrounding the desired result on Sunday. We simply have to stop losing. Defeat at charlton would plumb new depths this season.
For once we should turn up, put on a determined display, put away a bog standard third division outfit and give some long awaited cheer to our support. Failure to do so will hopefully bring a permanent end to some Norwich city careers.
Alternatively, we can lose in craven fashion bringing yet more scorn and derision down upon us and ramping up the toxicity levels another notch closer to the whole thing boiling over.
Hi Chris
That’s an excellent way of looking at it I must admit.
From what I’ve seen of Charlton this season your *bog standard* description ticks the box and that’s for sure.
Craven is the key word here and surely Dean Smith will want to avoid that?
The toxicity levels would be ramped up by a no-show defeat we should really be able to avoid but I am not so sure we have it in us.
We’ll see.
Cheers
Charlton away? Hope we ‘Won’t Get Fooled Again’… Regs
Tut. My feed didn’t originally show the video at the end so please ignore this moot point, Martin.
Although could add some player ones: eg. ‘Pictures of Dimi’, ‘My Beneration’, ‘Won’t Get Kruled Again’ – and, of course, ‘Substitute’!
Ha!
Townshend never admitted it until years afterwards but I doubt Dimi would be very happy if he knew what *Pictures of Lily* was about!
Hi Chris
Who Are You? 🙂
I thought you said you were going to lighten the mood?? I would like to see a couple of youngster too and maybe a chance for S & S to try a few things out. Anyway we must try to keep the faith.
Happy new year all.
Hi Cyprus
Well I kind of tried to lighten the mood. Maybe the change of theme wasn’t quite enough in itself to do that!
This could be our last chance to experiment in a competitive match this season so as ever we’ll simply have to wait and see.
Cheers
Well I couldn’t disagree more.
For a start the situation this year is slightly unusual. Instead of being relief from game after game in the PL, in which the first XI and most frequently used subs have become knackered, two games have been postponed and a number of key players missing in the ones that have been played. So Tim Krul, for example, will surely return. If Rashica, Hanley or Omo are fit they too need the game to regain sharpness.
Given what has happened recently I suspect Dean Smith will want to put out as many of his first picks as possible. They need to play together, need to gel. Somehow, as everyone keeps pointing out, they need to find a way of working the ball to Pukki more often. To do that Pukki needs to be there. In any case a number of stand-ins have had their chance of late and not exactly shone. Dowell for example has shown what he can’t do, likewise Melou. So what’s the point of them proving it again?
I always want us to do well in the cups, regardless of where we are in the league (which is rarely stuck in the middle!) For me, the failure over the last 20 years or so to put a more than one or two decent runs together in either of the cups is a big disappointment.
We can win the Championship from time to time; that’s great. We can barely survive in the PL. So why not bust a gut to give the fans something to cheer about for a change?
As for the Valley, I went there a couple of times when I lived in SE London, but not to see us. I only had to walk back to Shooters Hill Rd, rather less distance than Chadwell Heath. Derek Hales was all the rage at the time – and often in one. At one of the games I saw he had to be separated from a teammate who’d upset him, although it wasn’t the infamous game when he and Mick Flanagan were sent off. He made Roy Keane look like a softie.
Hi Keith
I must admit I have been pretty much disappointed in PML and Dowell has barely had a look-in under either Farke or Smith.
I know I said I don’t give a to$$ about Sunday but believe me 1992 was the best chance we will ever have of reaching an FA Cup final. ACN and we blew it.
Derek Hales I recall in the same manner as yourself – big beard, bad attitude.
Small world time: for the last few years of his PLA police service Dad was Chief Constable Eric Ellen’s driver and the latter lived in a splendid house which I think was on Shooters Hill itself or if not very close by. Once I sat in the back of the old Austin Westminster as Dad drove him home one evening. Mr Ellen was a charming fella and didn’t mind at all.
That was in the early 70s – I couldn’t imagine it happening today 🙂
Cheers
Hi Martin
I think it was the 59 cup run that sparked my interest in football and the Spurs double win in the 61/62 season followed by the 62/63 and 67 wins that got me interested in the FA Cup, the old Pathe News showing all the highlights prior to the main film also stirred up interest in the big games.
Can we see possible potential U23 getting game time it would be a good chance for them to show what they can do infront of a bigger crowd than they are use too but I’m unsure how DS sees this game.
Will we see a weakened team or a lot of returning players getting much needed game time, Krul, Pukki, Aarons, Rashica, Tzolis and Cantwell have either returned to training after injury or covid-19 so could do with a run out, Hanley and Andrew O might get a few minutes but the U23 might come on if city are in a comfortable position 🤥🤥
You mentioned the Red Tops will always find away of giving city a media kicking but for some reason they don’t call out the owners for lack of ambition and her prefered interview platform rarely gives them a bad time.
History
Charlton Valley Stadium once held the record for an FA Cup game crowd 1938 V Villa 75K
Really enjoyed the comments the other day great replies HNY to everyone
Hi Alex
Unfortunately 1959 is not in my living memory but my friend Keith went to every home match during the run and speaks with great enthusiasm about those few months.
I cannot predict who will make up the squad that day but it might be a little bit early for Omobamidele and Hanley from what I can gather. West Ham is only three days later so Smith has a balancing act to do.
Quite understandably given their media backgrounds Dela & MWJ can largely pick and choose who they speak with and I certainly haven’t seen a local exclusive from them in many years and don’t expect one any time soon.
I always enjoy the comments too 🙂
Cheers
Good morning Martin.
The 1- 0 defeat by Sunderland in the 1992 FA Cup semi final remains my single most disappointing day supporting our illustrious club. Forget relegations, even the Third Division one or the Coventry con job one, forget the Spurs or Villa League Cup Finals. This was the one that hurt.
The chance of seeing my team in an FA Cup final would have been just fantastic, being a little lad who loved FA Cup final day on the TV. Sadly it was not to be.
Perhaps it would have been overtaken as my worst day had we lost to Sunderland in the League Cup Final in 1985 but thanks to Asa Hartford’s ( it was on target) goal we got our revenge.
I still think John Byrne was offside. I had a lot of health issues at the time and was unable to go but it took me over a fortnight to get over that result😂
Losing to Brighton in the 6th round in 1983 was another missed opportunity, only Sheffield Wednesday would have stood in our way for a first FA Cup final appearance.
I think these days it is highly unlikely we will get those kind of chances again. Since 1988-89 only Everton, Portsmouth, Wigan and Leicester have interrupted the traditional big six from taking the trophy.
As for the game at Charlton it is going to be an interesting side that’s for sure.
The Sky boys were at it again on Saturday praising Crystal Palace in beating Norwich with so many players out …… for f…’s sake it was Norwich City Reserves !! They sacked Matt Le Tissier who always did his home work instead we have numpties who just don’t bother looking into our situation with any professionalism.
So other than 3-4 players this could be a under 23 side. Especially as West Ham away is the following mid-week.
I used to love 3rd round of the Fa Cup day, but now with sides playing under strength teams it has lost a lot of its lustre. I know at times it is a understandable that teams do that but why on earth do EPL teams sitting so comfortable in mid-table do it I just cannot believable it.
I bet the Leicester boys from last season FA Cup win will meet in 15-20-25 years time to celebrate their win in the competition last year. As probably Portsmouth and Wigan already have done.
I doubt any team will meet up to reminisce in years to come for finishing 15th or 16th in the EPL.
Come to think of it if we finish 17th this year it will be such a miracle who knows a reunion in 20 years time ? Picture it Martin “The Great Escape – Norwich City 2022” !!!!
Hi Tim
There was a LOT of conjecture about Byrne being offside but I have never had the heart to watch the highlights of the game. We were on the halfway line so it was impossible to make a valid judgement at the time so all I can say is that *it was a close call*.
I give the goal to Asa Hartford too as will 99% of us I am sure. Good ol’ Mick Channon!
The only Great Escape I can believe in is the last half hour of the film I simply had to watch at Christmas. I’ve seen it umpteen times before but I could watch that Steve McQueen motorcycle sequence every year until I croak – and probably will.
I wonder if Dean Smith performs his own *stunts*? I’d like to think that he does so it isn’t impossible but so very highly unlikely that we’ll get away with it.
Even the Cooler King didn’t escape but at least he put everything into trying.
Cheers
This will be my 4th trip to Charlton but only the 3rd to the Valley as the first was when they played at Selhurst Park. The Valley was a great night out last time I went in 2015, we won 3-2 and filled the away stand. My previous trip being in the Premier League and not so great. My comment the other week was that we have to concentrate on the Cup, I can’t see why we would leave players out to rest them only to lose to both Charlton and West Ham in a matter of days. We always have a dip in form after going out of the Cup so I hate to think what that would look like this year. Being of a slightly younger vintage I was expecting the musical clip to have had Richard Jobson in full voice!
Hi John
Yes of course there are two sides to every footballing coin so like a couple of other folks have mentioned above you might well be right.
As for The Skids it really was an obvious one but I ration myself to one clip per article so The Who took precedence.
When it comes to the age gap as much as I love hard rock and heavy metal from the year dot to right now I am a fanatical Clash lover and also still listen to bands like the Rich Kids, Ramones, Misfits, Stiff Little Fingers and even Billy Idol from that era.
At least editor Gary acknowledged Richard Jobson with his headline 🙂
Cheers
Have been to Charlton a few times with mixed feelings, a defeat that confirmed we were relegated to league one, a win thanks to Micheal Nelson that got us promoted back to the Championship. One of my favourite Pink Un headlines of the 70’s “Hot Cross Bone Day” when City won at the valley with goals from David Cross and Jim Bone ! We might not have been the most skilful or entertaining team (bit like today) but boy did they get stuck in, fight for each other, stick the boot in now and again to let the superstars of the day know they were about and going to give them a game. We were fit, always put the effort in and if the fans see that they will always stick with the team. I’m afraid I don’t see this attitude from quite a few of our players at this time. I go home and away and lately questioning myself why I do it as we let teams run the game how THEY want and walk all over us ! I know we have injuries and Covid cases and know we are a self funding team but this can take us only so far. I find it hard to believe that nobody would be interested in investing in Norwich City….. I feel our owners just don’t want to entertain it, I would just like to see our team compete and establish ourselves in the Premier league and without any kind of investment this is not going to happen, there comes a time when we get relegated we won’t be able to come back !
Hi Martin
Although I wasn’t at the game I recall the 4-2 defeat at Charlton pretty well as I think it was Korey Smith’s first league start and the Pink Un gave him a rave review. Less so for the other 10 on the day.
They really could write headlines in the pre-internet era and *Hot Cross Bone Day* was one of the very best I can remember as well.
Your final 15 words some up the feelings of many of us.
Thanks – terrific comment.