“It’s like watching Southampton first team versus Norwich Under 23s”.
Ouch.
The words of Jamie Carragher as said Scouser described, as delicately as is possible for said Scouser, City’s performance last night.
He was right.
Unfortunately, it was a line that could be attributed to far too many of City’s performances this season. As I attempt to cobble together some words on events at St Mary’s, I find myself scrambling around in that same bag of adjectives.
You know the ones.
This wasn’t a one-off. We’ve been here many times before. But last night’s stung a bit more because beforehand it appeared to offer a sliver of hope that simply wasn’t there when we played Man City and Liverpool.
As it transpired, you could argue that Southampton did a similar number on us to Man City. Against the might of Merseyside, we were better.
Dean Smith said himself that if his men could find in themselves a similar performance level to the one they produced at Anfield, then there were points to be had, while at the same time acknowledging that Southampton are a good side who are currently in a good place.
Unfortunately only the second part of that Smith prophecy came to pass.
From the first to the final blast of Simon Hooper’s whistle, City were second best. Southampton were quicker, sharper, and stronger in the physical sense and in every technical aspect of the game were better. In the tactical battle too it was Hassenhuttl who triumphed.
I guess at the end of the day it boils down to the Saints having better players, but that doesn’t excuse how woeful City were without the ball and how lacklustre and lacking in desire they appeared.
A defeat at St Mary’s came as no surprise – in researching the preview it became very clear what a quality, in-form outfit they are – but the manner of it hurt, even though we’ve seen it all before.
Grant Hanley and Angus Gunn should, of course, be exonerated from any criticism as both were excellent on the night, but there were precious few other positives to be gleaned from an evening that had relegation scrawled all over it.
The first goal was about as Norwich City as you can get with numerous cock-ups and mistakes occurring before Che Adams finally hooked the ball into the roof of the net from a laying position, but the second was undoubtedly a quality strike.
The only question mark around that was the amount of space left on the edge of the box – something that happened from every corner and advanced set-piece all evening – something perhaps for Messrs Smith and Shakespeare to look at.
But I’ll leave it there for now – it’s hard to get too worked up over football with Europe teetering on the brink of war.
Others still believe that the next two league games – against Brentford and Leeds – may yet open us up a route to safety, so let’s run with that for now.
I think JC’s comment is an insult to the Under 23’s. Defeat is always unpleasant but the poor performance by most of our team adds insult to injury anyway.
The commentary graphic that got me was just after Saints went 1 up.
It showed that in the 51 previous Prem League games that we had conceded first in our record was 1 draw and 50 defeats. That’s it a damning statistic.
Depressing performance caps a worrying and depressing few days. Absolutely nothing about last night inspired any confidence; yet another men against boys non competition.
We were relegated before the season kicked off!No Skipp or Buendia replacements,no new striker,instead a bunch of players who look good on paper but are nowhere near epl standard,(Rachica apart).£18million wasted on two players who are more league 1 standard,few youngsters brought in who will only be loaned out or released,this is all down to Webber,surely its time for him to go and let Adams have a go,at least he couldnt do any worse.Time and time again the board get promotion wrong,perhaps its time for them to go aswell!!
Webber is and always will be the first point of blame and possibly he got some signings wrong but then tell me a DoF that gets everyone right.
Was DF as much to blame as I don’t think any of the recruits would have been signed without his full agreement.
But the real blame must go to the way the ownership runs the club and their lack of ambition.
Until they leave this club will continue to struggle when in the premiership and once parachute payments stop we will struggle to survive in the Championship.
They are like Morris at Derby once it all starts to fall apart bang in for administration and say not my fault as the predators circle.
They now have a chance to sell from strength and get people to take the club forward but then if that happened it would show how badly they have run the club for 25years
Alex, I agree that you can’t expect a DOF to get every signing right.
But sadly it appears in the last window he didn’t get any right.
Hi Ken
That’s might be right but I will keep my powder dry as some of these could come good just not this season sadly
In the last window he didn’t do any at all!
Hi Gary
With so many youngsters out on loan in reality it was more like the U19 team against a hardened premiership team.
The figures being bandied about for Ward Prows would kit out city with half a team just think if Cantwell had half as much love for his local team what a player he would be for us instead of Bournemouth.
Too many players seem to have an off night at the same time or are we always just poor infront of a TV audience if that’s the case I will forget our next away game at the home of the penalty Kings who ever the officials are this season at Anfield they all read the Klopp script saying that the don’t get enough so now it’s gone the other way.
Brentford, Everton and Leeds are still reachable but as many have said previously the owner’s prefer championship football and slowly but surely over 20+years that has infected the clubs ambitions.
No one wants to see a bad ending but it will murmurings of discontent on many sites have started and a really poor end of season could see a Summer of trouble
Onwards and upwards
OTBC
The only positive news we’ve received this season was at the AGM when one of the finance people confirmed that we have received several offers to buy the club. These offers have been scrutinised and the viable ones presented to the board for consideration.
After yet another abysmal performance in the top flight now, more than ever it is time for our board to look again at the viable offers in the best interests of the club.
The self funding model has been proven to be inadequate, some would say embarrassing!
I am sorry to say I cannot see a way out of this when we need a fight and some bottle, too few players showed any last night. except for Gunn (who really proved himself to the home crowd) and Hanley has no other way of playing and thank god for that. Gibson was not bad either. There are enough games and points available, but after that question marks are in place.
Was the game a target, that we could not do anything in ? But concentrate on those we may be able to. a Hughton MkII
The moment Idah was ruled out, Hugill should have been brought home, a time is here to look at loan contracts we sign them up to. He would certainly have given the Saint defence something to worry about, plus Pukki would not be ploughing alone.
Is the mayor really that good? one premiership goal in nearly 2 seasons, speaks for himself. Rupp ofter the butt of criticism, but he is quite a tidy squad player, but like others, he would not make anyone quake in their boots or provide that spark is so badly missing.
The rest are really not even good championship players. ( I include Aarons in that, Byram is a better bet for me to move Aarons into a more attacking role but cannot see what much good that would do now.
Saints singled out Williams and Rachica and it worked to a tee. Walker-Peters had a field day on the other side too. I use to say Farke’s set was easy for teams to play against, well last night that mantle fell on Smith’s side. too easy, to predictable. Not laying the blame on Smith, only that he took the job, but it is nowhere near a team he would put together.
The blame must lay at Webber’s desk, he is responsible for the purchases of what really amounts to championship shopping. Do not be blinded by the off-fieldwork he has done, which was needed. Time to move on Neil Adams could take over, being an ex-player and has green and yellow running through him. he would know a hell of a lot more. This might sound cruel, but Webber reminds of a Hospital manager who has never picked up a stethoscope in their life but runs a hospital.
It’s Webber’s fault not the owners who fail to provide the necessary investment?
But John, Webber had £50/60M to spend, granted not a huge amount in PL terms. But sadly it seems most has been wasted if he had double that amount, seems that would not have helped.
Personally I doubt if DF had much say in transfers.
Between £33-38 million of that was from Buendia sale so the net spend was around £20 million which doesn’t buy much in the premiership.
Brentford’s net spend was £40 million.
The whole crux of it, the custodians of the club have no money to invest, but continually preach there are no investors out there. When the guidelines are written by the owners of biggest slice of shares. That any new owner must be a supporter, narrows the field to about a blade of grass.
The writing is on the wall , surely soon Stuart Webber will except his shortcomings transfer wise and maybe the club as a whole will need to do some soul searching .
I wouldn’t blame Webber if he left. He must be fed up trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear!
this year its a silk purse into a sows ear though – sell our only EPL quality player and buy players who are not good enough – we needed a physical CDM and Pukki replacement/back up 2 years ago and we are still waiting.
I dont understand opinion that Norwich played bad game, result was not good but outside that Norwich played well. Tactically performance was good, there was clear game plan but like always in Noriwch games someone makes first vital mistake which is costly and this time it was Williams. When Norwich made subs their playing went better, Rashica and Normann couldnt compete and were awful and especially Rupp showed different class than any other Norwich midfielder. Of course Southampton was better, their wing backs and central midfielders were too much for Norwich, but their attacking players are honestly bad.
Im very pleased how Teemu played. I have had concerns about his playing, but he seems to be himself. It was wise decision to not force him all the time to defend and run headless pressing runs. Now all those times when he got ball he was effective. His individual effort and perfect pass to Sargent was actually good scoring chance, but Sargent just does not have technical quality and its not his fault its american football coaches fault. It was typical situation where its very close that Finland scores when Teemu wins opponent defenders and made perfect pass. He gave similar but not so easy chance to McLean too. It looks very good for Finland, Norwich its way more difficult because your team lacks technicality and you have way too many players who lacks football understanding. That is why top premier league clubs are so much better, its nut because of trying and fighting and kicking everything what moves.
I listened 2 games with english commentators. Rangers-Dortmund and this game. Now I start to understand where comes british strange and very wrong comments like should have scored and things like that. Dortmund missed so many good chances and yes didnt had luck either. English commentator yesterday claimed that Hanley should have scored, he didnt understand that situation when Teemu took ball away from Soton defenders that it happened because he pushed little bit Salisu who lost slightly his balance. Instead of that he claimed that someone gave very good pass and actually pass was awful without direction. You have to start demand way higher quality for commentators. All the time they are commenting more bodies closer to goal, more fighting spirit and stuff like that. Its nonsense, its kick and rush football which anyone can play and it shows how bad situation still is in british football no matter how many quality foreign players and managers there has been coming.
Thank goodness the Ukranians are showing rather more resolve, fight and loyalty than most of our “team” last night.
It looked to me that too many of them are already planning for next season away from the Carra.
O T B C
An absolutely appalling no show which in many ways sums up the entire season.
Instead of handing out free scarves, the club should give us all a white flag.
The lack of ambition is staggering. The bare minimum requirement during the January window was another mobile centre forward to supplement idah and pukki, to enable us to play with 2 strikers at all times. Self financing killed those hopes, leaving us one injury away from being unable to place a striker on the bench. Negligent, naive, stupid and suicidal.
With a pair up top we would be able to bypass the midfield and let’s be honest, any midfield comprising of McLean and gilmour has to be bypassed.
Quite why Smith reverted to fannying about in the box with goal kicks is anyones guess. It fave the impression that the game was played entirely in or around our penalty box. Invariably we lost the ball.
His assertion that each player merited a 6 out of 10 was laughable. And worrying.
Changes needed – from top to bottom.
Yes, appalling is one of the ways to describe it – no passion yet again in a big game. Our Scottish midfield – one with ability showed none, the other no ability but still in the team – baffles me. Bad management by Farke at start of the season – set the rot in for this season, not Webber’s recruitment. We have enough to compete with the bottom ten in this division, we just need a manager to put fire in their bellies – seen very little of that from Smith so far, just slightly better in defence – that’s it
Smith reminds me of Deputy Dawg or Mr Magoo even when he smiles.
Maybe we should have gone fir the unknown Norwegian but would he have jumped ship from a European challenge to a survival challenge we will never know now if he was up for it
Lest some folk may forget, most clubs promoted from the Championship return there at the end of the following season and if not, the season after. City, Watford and Brentford are all looking likely candidates to follow suit. WBA, Fulham did so last season, the list is long but you get my drift. Even the mighty Bielsa and Leeds are flailing.
Let’s not be to surprised or lay blame at the feet of those who have done so well for our club. It’s how it is and apart from a very rare success story it can’t change. In saying this I would agree recruitment has been poor and we should be more competitive, Friday night we were awful but we still have hope so let’s get behind the boys.
It’s only football.
I was really surprised Dean Smith had the lads trying to play out from the back more than in recent games.
Especially against one of the quickest closing down sides in the EPL.
I think this really shows that the Adam Idah injury is a catastrophe.
Now Adam is no Harry Kane but he does give us options. Even if he isn’t ripping it up, he helps Teemu who looked like a guy who was considering joining a lonely hearts club last night.
Can we bring Hugill back ? Or has that ship sailed ?
The weird thing is with Leeds, Brentford and Everton trying their hardest to achieve relegation the fight for survival is now 6 clubs whereas it looked to be any 3 from 4.and we look incapable of taking advantage.of this turn of events.
I thought we looked better when Rupp and Lees-Melou came on.
Poor Kenny is not having a good season though he has been a great servant for us.
Gilmour is a real enigma, at times he looks decent but then gets bullied out of things.
Time for a rest in my very humble opinion, or as a no 10 ?
I thought to be fair that we have been worse this season in other games. But last night wasn’t good.
Brentford is sh!t or bust. Pure and simple.
We must win, a draw is worthless. And at Leeds a draw there is a minimum if we have beaten Brentford.
I hope like JohnF that Delia and Michael really look at this recurring wheel that we are on and seriously consider any decent offer that comes their way.
Of course extreme due diligence must be done, but they are the custodians of the club not owners really and must put the interests of the Canary nation ahead of personal glory.
They have done a good job on balance but the scales are tipping the other way.
A sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again with the same results.
Whatever happens we must get behind Dean Smith for this season and next.
For all my doom and gloom I do believe if the worse happens that he will have us competitive in the Championship next season.
I don’t share the description of the game as a disgrace. The pleasant gent from Eye standing next to me was probably right though, Saints weren’t really in top gear, thankfully. But they were good enough to wear us down, and drain our confidence. There was no lack of effort. I’m glad someone on here noticed how well Pukki played, totally isolated, whenever he got the ball, he wriggled and turned, and frightened the pants off them. Hanley had a gold plated chance to score. I applaud the hugely ambitious Owners who have allowed us to punch well above our weight for decades, self reliance a refreshing trait, in this world of deference to the oligarchs. Friday signals relegation for me, but o hope we battle to the end. Next season looks fascinating. Maybe it’s time for some other sides to rise, how about little old York, Exeter, Plymouth, Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Carlisle. OTBC
I’m sure if we carry on down your favoured route we’ll be playing all those sides and more besides soon enough.
How have the owners allowed us to punch above our weight – they have invested no money in the club (they got the money for the training centre back) for at least the last 5 years. The only way we survive as a club is sales and sky money – if we have no-one to sell and dont come straight back up – where will be in say 5 years with no investment from owners or others. Its very doubtful we will sell out home games if we are mid or bottom champs with no hope of mush else. The world of football has changed and its all about money now though it was ever thus but its got much worse and will not change unless the state funded teams go off to a super league and take all sky money etc with them – sanity may then return.
I’m not sure we can be said to be punching above our weight. We are pretty much punching where we would expect to be. Not a top 10 club but comfortably in the next 20. A top 26 club is what should be sustainable and we have the level of support to be at the midpoint of that 26. We have a catchment of over 1 million people. The other clubs you mention don’t have that and that is shown by their history, they probably are more likely to aspire to being the next Bournemouth.
We looked Championship calibre at best. Not trying to get out of my league by being too technical but we were killed down the flanks (Kyle Walker-Peters looked like a world beater out there) in the first half particularly, yet we started with a 4-3-3 and looked grossly outplayed in the midfield. Sargent spent the majority of the first half defending, and couldn’t support Pukki, and Rashica looked dis-interested. And we were relying on Normann, first start since being injured (yes, I know, he was subbed on for limited minutes previously). Yet. when the substitutes came on and we shifted to more of a 4-4-2 we started to take the game to them and looked far more dangerous. I understand that the players, many of them, should shoulder some of the criticism but I think DS got the set-up wrong from the start and stuck with it far too long. Hanley, Gunn can hold their heads high but I think it’s time for Max to give way for a week or two in order to re-charge. He’s the shadow of the player he was over the last two seasons.