The incessant and sometimes tedious debate about whether it is points or performances that matter the most has surely dragged itself towards the most unwanted conclusion of all – that Norwich City are now equally ineffective in both respects.
One point in nine backed by dire consecutive offerings against WBA, Preston, and now Watford have surely taken the wind from the sails of even the most fervent backer of Dean Smith and Craig Shakespeare.
I have tried to sit on the fence throughout the entire proceedings, not so much out of cowardice but more out of a sense of not really knowing the truth. Having my suspicions, yes of course. But proof?
Well, that proof emerged on a wave of maroon-shirted mediocrity from Vicarage Road on Saturday evening and that is for sure.
I shared my “enjoyment” of the entertainment provided with regular MFW posse members Alex A, Alex B and Bernie Owen, frequent emails passing between the four of us as events unfolded in Hertfordshire.
A split-second before Josh Sargent’s goal I mailed the others to say this had been the worst 45 minutes of football I had seen from us in a long time, even including our ill-fated recent outings in the Premier League. I wasn’t met with howls of rebuttal.
For 20 minutes or so in the second half, we gave it a proper go, but without that sense of self-belief, that is oh-so-necessary when it comes to turning a match around. If we believed in ourselves, we had a strange way of showing it and that’s for sure.
Gary’s article yesterday, and some of the excellent comments on it, pointed various fingers in various directions. This overtly critical approach may be considered superfluous by a certain type of supporter but MFW readers know their football, are passionate about the lads in Yellow, and are rarely content to keep their thoughts locked up for very long.
And all our writers wouldn’t have it any other way.
So what problems shall I pick out as I attempt to trawl through the shards of another [which all too soon could become yet another] defeat?
Personnel. There was no excuse to start the Championship season without a certain level of steel as part of the recruitment process. Olly Skipp, Alex Tettey and indeed Bradley Johnson have never been replaced.
While it was good to see Isaac Hayden take to the pitch at last, a quick look at the bottom right-hand corner of my rarely-used backup Acer showed the legend 15/10/22. Another gamble on an injury-prone player that has the hallmarks of Stuart Webber stamped all over it.
I wish Isaac nothing but the best following his belated beginnings with us but obviously he didn’t look fit because he wasn’t.
Resilience. There’s not too much of that in the physical sense in our midfield. We’re not good enough to play possession football for 80 percent of a match and once the ball is lost it remains just that for far too long.
Pick from Marcelino Nunez, Gabriel Sara, Kenny McLean, Kieran Dowell, Danel Sinani, Todd Cantwell, and even Liam Gibbs to an extent and you’ll struggle to find an exponent of the old-school discipline of bark, b0ll0ck, and bite.
Watford took physical control of the game and managed to carry referee Darren England along for the ride with them, indulging in unpunished $hithousing in extremis at every opportunity. Smith knew this would happen – the Hornets have the physicality and they are rarely afraid to use it, which brings me neatly on to:
Preparation. I know Smith can only choose from the players he has at his disposal, but this midfield group is never going to get to grips with the likes of Watford. A simple question would be that we knew this would be the case in the summer, so why didn’t we do something about it in recruitment terms when we had the chance?
My moan of the match followed the second of two poorly taken corners by Nunez when the Sky cameramen decided to spotlight set piece coach Allan Russell on the Norwich bench. I thought Messrs Hinchcliffe and McCarthy were quite gentle in their response to the irony – I was steaming!
Luton tomorrow night has to serve as a statement of intent in which wrongs must be righted and three points gained.
We’re not in Disasterland quite yet but in this instance surely nothing else is acceptable.
Morning Martin big week for Smith this week I can’t recall us playing well for 90 mins in any game this season Coventry properly the best somehow we’ve 3rd alot of points gained riding our luck .the lack of regency in Saturdays game and others is worrying seems to me they’re not got the hunger for it at the moment and that’s down to ds and I’m not expecting anything from next 3 games honestly it’s been a hard watch we’ve lucky to be in position we are . All the best mate .
Hi Kev
I think that’s fair enough.
I struggle to see any real hunger too.
Cheers
Morning Mr P trust you are on the mend. Shows how bad I thought it was going to be, I didn’t bother with find a stream or even turn the radio on at any point.
The defeat came as no surprise at all, not that Watford are a bit of a bogey team, which they are over the last few seasons, but I knew they would bully us to an extent we could not cope. Only the scoreline surprised me I expected a bigger margin.
This slump for want of a better word has been coming, while it is good to win when playing below par, there has been no evidence that there is any more geas, or plans to counteract the piss-poor displays. The reasoning behind playing poor but winning is no longer genuine .
It would be wrong to lay all the blame on Smith & co but also the old chestnut of poor recruitment rears its ugly head once again. Smith has been here long enough to know his squad with a couple of exceptions, but the same mistake and cluelessness is still very much in evidence, this is a lower class of opposition makes the matter worse.
As you rightly said certain players have never been replaced, when an attempt has been made, the player was nowhere near ready to play, had we not had a jammy spell I think we could have been near the bottom of the table.
I expect nothing from the visit of Luton, they have done very against us, with Morrison finding the net, ably backed by one of my favourites, Cameron Jerome, also Henri Lansbury ((if still there) They will be too strong for our centre. The only thing I can see is Hanley having a good one up against a more traditional striker. Then two tough aways games Burnley, and Sheffield Utd, followed by QPR, who sit one behind us, then a fired-up Stoke under Alex Neil. To be honest I cannot see much return from those next 4., making it look a lot grimmer.
We know the board won’t part with Smith & Co, there will be nobody around good enough to take this limping group on without paying a vast amount of compo First to Smith etc and any club they want to poach from. The boat has sailed over, a good ole Norfolk lad Warne’y
I think we are stuck we identity-less type of football for the foreseeable, like it or lump
Hi Lad
Yes, you would think that after 11 months in the job that Dean Smith would show a bit more knowledge of his squad but apart from a vast improvement in making subs I have seen very little.
There is no charm there and precious little fight.
I too think Paul Warne would have been worth a shot but in all fairness the timing wasn’t of the best and I really wonder if we have the ability to pay compensation to Smith and his crew.
Unlike Warney they’re Brummie lads and it shows.
Cheers
I agree with every word of this.
I recently said that if we are still in the top two at the end of October I would start to get excited. I hope I can give the same time before I get angry with the way things are going-however, in the manner of whoever is Chancellor this week, I may have to bring things forward.
This is a massive week for Smith, Shakespeare and the fans.
Hi Don
Yes it’s a massive week for those you cite as examples and that’s for sure.
I suppose Smith just about retains more credibility than recent chancellors past and present but the bar isn’t set very high in that respect.
Cheers
Im 100% sure that the Watford-Norwich game was the highest level game of the season in the Championship. It was like Watford manager Bilic said, Watford played a very good first half. Norwich were better in the first 20 minutes of the second half and after that Watford slightly better again. Bilic was asked to describe Norwich as a team and you could see that he had difficulties outside Pukki and Sargent. Pukki is mayday mayday wherever he touches a ball to opponents. Sargent is over performing right now which is of course a very good thing for Norwich. Your strength is in strikers and goalkeepers, its difficult to see other players who would impress. If Sargent wants to be selected to the world cup he should be effective in the national team games, he has basically been the opposite of that. During the 8 games for USA in 21 and 22 he has not scored any goals. USA has very easy qualification and way too high world ranking. Anyway I hope that he gets selected, its obvious that the dream of the world cup has made him try very hard and not getting selected would likely break his heart and it could affect to his playing very negatively.
Hi 1×2
Pukki is far too professional to show much emotion but I really do think his time to leave us will come in January.
As for Sargent I agree with you and the USMNT coach has made nothing clear yet. Are the USA ranked above their ability?
From what little I have seen of them, I think they are somewhat.
Kiitos
Martin, USA would not qualify from Europe to any major tournaments. Actually away games in Europe are often so hostile and they lack that experience. USA fifa ranking is very made up, lets say its very difficult to market team USA in world cup to americans if their fifa ranking would be something like 70th. I see south american qualification is also basically impossible for them. Canada is a similar thing. In these qualifications Canada beat the USA 2-0 at home and USA-Canada ended 1-1. Canada won qualification group and USA was third. England and Wales should easily be first and second in that world cup group., Iran should be a tougher opponent than the USA, especially to Wales with their defensive playing style and actually USA-Iran is must watch game because of political situation. Getting to the world cup is very very difficult from Europe thanks to Platini and his ideas. Finland by the way qualified for the basketball world cup as the first european country and the same way as in football its extremely difficult. To europeans world cup in both those sports are easier overall than european championships.
I doubt that Pukki would accept transfer in january. It would have to be a massive club which tries to win something very important. He can try free transfer markets next summer and of course Norwich is 1 option if Norwich gets promoted back to the premier league. I dont either believe that your club which obviously tries very hard to get promoted would gamble by selling Pukki.
That is a very informative read about the USA 1×2 and I enjoyed seeing your thoughts which seem rooted in reality to me.
I am just worried about Pukki growing increasingly disillusioned. he has done enough for Norwich City, in fact more than enough.
Let’s get this straight – Watford have the most expensive and probably best paid squad in the league (not quite sure if Burnley would have a bigger wage bill). With that comes a fair number of very talented players but also the mindset of Prima Donnas. Frankly they should be top of this league by a mile.
Rob Edwards is a promising manager but used to getting the best out of lower league players – not unlike Ryan Lowe at PNE who in my mind would be one in the frame were we to want to change managers. But for the Prima Donnas you need someone like BIlic who has rather more experience of managing and playing with them. I will be very surprised if they don’t now go on to dominate the division. Just a shame we didn’t get a shot at them a few games ago.
That doesn’t excuse our apparent no show and the lack of midfield steel. That’s been an issue ever since Gary Holt retired, bar those weeks when Tettey was fit and one season (in the Championship don’t forget) when Skipp took charge.
I thought most significant was Smith’s comment about switching his full backs around. Maybe it’s becoming a little clearer why Max Aarons – who supposedly has been guaranteed to be sold in at least the last 5 transfer windows, according to folks on here – is not quite the hot property that everyone thought he was. When Gianulous returns it will be interesting to see if Max is the one to make way, unless Byrom becomes a third centre back and we go with wing backs.
Hi Keith
Interesting point Bryam at CB not sure on that one maybe like another RB that thought he was a class CB, Russell Martin a good dependable RB but never a CB and I see Byram in the same way.
Aarons was always in his youth a winger it was city that that converted him into a wingback but it now looks like he’s wanting to be more forward and neglects his defensive duties or just maybe DS&SS are telling him to get more forward hoping the overworked Andrew Omobamidele and Hanley can cope ??? Over to you
I saw Russ Martin’s emergency centre half debut, up against Kevin Davies at Bolton. He excelled and we won. Every City and Scotland manager since used him in that position pretty well permanently and I’m pretty sure that when we arrived back in the Championship he was picked by his peers in the team of the season. So I’ve always found it curious that so many fans were never convinced. But then the same was true of Godfrey, whom many never believed was anything other than a defensive midfielder.
Apparently Omo is out tomorrow so it looks like Gibson will be back….
Sorry Keith I can’t agree.
Ruus was a great right back for us but as centre half he was atrocious.
I asked Daniel Farke as to whether he saw Russ as a right back or CH when he first arrived, I got a very diplomatic answer as to how important Russ was to us etc.
Then came Fulham away and he saw what we all did, and Russ was history.
So if he was atrocious why did his peers pick him in the divisional player of the season team? Funny how the professionals know diddly squat about the game compared with the fans isn’t it?
I was never really a fan of Russ at CB either.
Your opinion Keith one you are totally entitled to, just as I am mine.
I know one City Player of that era agrees with me.
Kyle Naughton had an excellent last 20 minutes against Bolton’s Davies as well – all five feet six of him 🙂
Keith: it’s hard to argue about the peer view on Russ at the time but something like that remains a very perspective issue I think.
The disjunct between the CBs and Max or whover has been poor.
Hi Keith
You make a very fair point about Watford and Rob Edwards was surely always the wrong fit for them for reasons you suggest.
Olly Skipp quietly took things by the scruff of the neck and enjoyed a great season with us. I hope he goes on to a great career whether at Tottenham or elsewhere.
Aarons has not really progressed since Emi left imo but he got no help from Nunez at all on Saturday.
Cheers
I’m certain that Dean Smith is a belt and braces manager rather than an inspirational one. This basic approach may work in the lower divisions but when you’re in the championship with a pretty decent squad of players things can quickly fall flat if a couple of results don’t go your way.
I fear this is the case with City at the moment and unfortunately I don’t think Dean Smith is equipped to improve matters in a hurry.
In the early days of his management when things weren’t going well Daniel Farke always gave the impression that he knew how to improve matters and we were going through a transitional period when interviewed. I don’t get the same impression from Dean Smith.
Like you Martin I feel Webber will need to take urgent action if we are beaten by Luton or things will drastically take a turn for the worse.
Agree, John F. I always felt Farke had an over-arching plan (sadly which didn’t work in the PL) but Smith just says the same things every week. With him I don’t feel there’s a destination. Just jogging along each week with fingers crossed behind his back waiting for divine intervention. Sadly God’s busy at the moment – but our call is important to him…
Hi John
I don’t feel Webber will take any decisive action at any time soon purely because I think compensation payments for Smith & staff would be through the ceiling.
The pessimist in me can see this season beginning to unravel I’m afraid.
Cheers
Hi Martin.
I said yesterday in Gary’s article people moan about the Pozzo’s at Watford for their hire and fire attitude especially with 11 games gone but their comments after the sacking really covers DS&SS,
1 They couldn’t see any improvement in the players
2 No Plan on taking the Club forward came to light
3 No fight in the Team
4 The players didn’t believe in his methods
5 After a pre-season and 11 games you expect to see improvements in and around the squad.
DS&SS have had not 11 games but 11 months and that old chestnut about not his players goes out the window he has had time to make changes and to turn players into how he wants them to play but I see none of that.
Watford as you say use the dark arts, their stunt coach teaching them how to fall deserves an OSCAR for the amount of times they conned the Ref, every decision was questioned and he harassed into giving them 50/50 ones, When city tried it Watford players jumped in to out shout them push their own agenda.
Someone said we have no booming voices yet we have Gibson on the bench never used unless Hanley looks injured, any plan for Tuesday should include a back 3 not only for Gibsons booming voice but his left sided play to aid who is at LB (not going to happen).
Back to organising Hanley for all his leadership skill it’s by example not shouting, Gibson is the voice everyone remembers echoing around CR, McLean Mr Undroppable, the reader of the game well stop reading the game and start reacting to situations pointing for others to cover space doesn’t work you see it fill it that’s what I was told at school not leave it to others.
SW has got much to be proud of but just as much to be ashamed of, letting someone take the fall for a couple of poor recruitment window then replacing him with the complete opposite is strange, now we hear that Chelsea are still interested in taking you to fill their Director of Football please jump ship.
Neil Adams a city legend but can he fill the DF role not sure but someone needs the cajounes to sort this slowly building mess out and soon before it turn nasty.
DS&SS haven’t taken the club forward maybe it’s because they don’t like the rural life of Norfolk or just that they haven’t got Billionaire’s to throw money at it.
Time is up for someone Tuesday’s Red Button Game could see the beginning of the end game.
Hi Alex
With Omobamidele definitely sidelined you have got your wish for Gibson and it will be interesting to see how well he performs.
Webber pushing his *I am the whole of the law* agenda does nothing for me whatsoever but trust me, he’ll leave when he’s ready and not before.
There are far worse people than Neil Adams out there to step in but he won’t be spending the amount Webber has done and that’s for sure.
Looking at the likes of Tzolis, Rashica and Normann [amongst others] maybe that’s not such a bad thing in many ways.
Cajones is missing at every turn right now. I wonder what the guy from Milwaukee is thinking at the moment?
Cheers
Last week I , rather tongue in cheek, suggested that as our defensive howlers over 4 seasons had a continuity of Krull Aarons, McLean and Hanley, that they might be rested. Well Gunn jnr did ok , but the howlers from the continuity crew continued on the outfield.
Hi Bernie
Yes you are right, of course you are, as the howlers continue apace.
Replays of many recent goals conceded have been horrible to watch.
Cheers
I’ve decided to be positive, a great penalty save by Gunn, and a lovely goal from the Sarge. Like Keith has said Watford have probably the best squad in the Chump and are now getting into their stride, I’ll be surprised if they don’t finish in the top two. Smith will not get us anywhere near promotion and I am not keen that he should. With our spending ability and his leadership it would be another disaster in the Prem anyway.
HI city
I read yesterday that Sarr will be out to Vanilla in January for £27m+ and that Pedro could also be gone to Everton or Leeds now that could hurt their prospects
Similklar *ifs* to the ones in August?
Hi Cutty
I have always wanted promotion at all costs but like you I am seriously beginning to doubt the viability of it all.
A sad state of affairs but one I’m beginning to come around to.
Cheers
Right on, Martin. It’s a desperately poor Championship this season. but teams will improve as they get to grips with what they’ve got. Sadly, I don’t see that happening at Norwich. I do have this eerie feeling we will miraculously hobble and bobble or way into 6th place and make the play-offs. But, if we do get there, who’d want to win them?
How many of these players are Premier League class? How many of them are even above average in the Championship? Suspect we are fortunate to be where we are near the top of the division, but that our natural resting point is about 10th. We’re in danger of sliding into perpetual Championship obscurity. It took years and a spectacularly successful managerial appointment to make it back. And they’ve spent a sixth of a billion pounds to still be bottom.
Hi Chris
As depressive as your comment is it is fully justified by its perceived accuracy.
I couldn’t agree with you more.
Cheers
*Nottingham Forest*
What about Forest ? 🙂
Sorry Martin. That was a note on my previous comment. I omitted ‘Nottingham Forest’ but was talking about them for last two sentences, ie….
‘We’re in danger of sliding into perpetual Championship obscurity. It took Nottingham Forest years and a spectacularly successful managerial appointment to make it back. And they’ve spent a sixth of a billion pounds since then to still be bottom (of the PL).’
You’re spot on again. All too true.
Good morning, Martin
I said a lot on here yesterday, so I won’t repeat myself and bore everyone senseless.
I do agree it is time we did look at the coaching staff in more depth.
Many of Dean Smith’s critics say he still hasn’t got a clearly defined way of playing. Personally, I can see what he is trying to do but the truth is that is only happening in parts of games.
And he must take onboard a lot of the flak he is getting for his team selection v Watford.
It was so clear Friday night that either the players are not doing what he asks, or he is not getting his message across. So, he has to take responsibility which I am sure he will. I always knew this was a very hard game especially in front of the cameras. Time for the Watford players to put themselves in the shop window in time for January.
But I am with you Martin this goes way deeper than Dean Smith. The truth is SW has done a lot of good since he has been here, but what do we need more at this moment in time a reliable fit holding midfielder or a Soccerbot ?
The recruitment in the summer was indifferent, Sara and Nunez could become Canary Legends, but it is just too early to say. But what really gets me is this failure to do anything in the summer to give us more strength and physicality? Hayden and Sara could do that for us, but one is as you say clearly not fit and the other having to acclimatize to English football.
Our midfield has been poor. The whole team to me is unbalanced. No left back ( Bali wherefor art thou🤬) Even Liam Gibbs as good as he has been, is seen by Smith as a player that can and will play further forward in time, the whole Josh Sargent winger experiment!!! and the massive lack of physicality.
How many times have we banged on here Martin about replacing Alex Tettey? I am like stuck record. Look at all the names you mention Dean Smith has to pick from midfield not one a Tettey or Skipp like character. But in Ramsey, Dowell, Cantwell all who I see as No 10’s. You could add Kenny, Sara and Nunez to that list as well at a push.
But holding midfielder, Sorenson long-term injury, Hayden long-term injury and Gibbs a youngster. A gamble that has failed. Just some of the things wrong at present.
This must be the most inconsistent Norwich team I have ever seen, for 20 minutes or so HMS Piss the League and then the next 20 minutes Ipswich circa 2019 😂 all in one half of football.
I do wonder if a fresh-faced young coach could come in and inspire these players. Perhaps.
But I remain of the view that the problem has been recruitment not Smith or Farke’s coaching in the main.
I still think Smith has time, 10 unbeaten however achieved is still good going in this league. However, Martin you are right Luton on Tuesday, and the following four matches will define where we go from here.
Hi Tim
You openly declared yourself in favour of Dean Smith yesterday and I too have been very loath to criticism him overmuch but I have reached my turning point.
We’ve seen enough to form a realistic judgement by now and I think several supporters [me included] have finally scrambled off the fence.
Sara cost nearly £10 million by all accounts and, should we get promoted, I have heard £12 million quoted for Hayden. Neither is working out too well right now, but for the reasons you say so we’ll have to wait and see for a while.
Yes our collective record remains stuck over replacements for Tettey and Olly Skipp, but surely the point remains valid?
The next three sets of oppo are all very physical and I must admit that I feel a deep level of concern right now.
Cheers
Spot on Martin. The point regarding HM is more valid than ever.
I am reluctant to go with the flow against Dean Smith at present Martin as we are 3rd in the Championship (God knows how) one point off the top so all isn’t as bad as we feel?
Villa look worse off to me with young Gerrard than with Smith. So, a change for a younger coach doesn’t always work.
And now it seems we have borrowed against what is in truth all next year’s parachute money🤬 which means tightening of our belts next season. A whole year before I had hoped we would have to.
I agree that the very difficult next five games will probably decide Smith’s fate.
I just cannot help feeling that this is all to do more with recruitment than coaching Martin, just like I felt on the day Daniel Farke was sacked. But I admit I may be completely in the wrong.
My instinct tends to go with you on recruitment oveer coaching.
Sometimes I really do wonder if it’s a case of *too many cooks*.
On point as always Mr. P.
What on earth was Smith thinking when he selected that midfield against Watford?
Apparently we have a set piece coach who has so far done exactly what? Similarly something called a Soccerbot. What a waste of money both of those currently seem to be.
As for the coaching of the current squad, who is actually improving? Aaron’s and Krul seem to be going backwards at pace, and Pukki currently reminds me of Grant Holt under Chris Houghton.
Not a happy ship at present I fear.
O T B C
Hi John
As I said earlier Chelsea have signed their new recruitment guru from Southampton but are still after a Sporting/Football Director in the SW mould can we see him leaving and would said wife let him go that’s he next question and how much compo would city want.
In all honesty I don’t see Adams taking or making big decisions he strikes me as a goffer for Webber and if SW leaves then we will either be in a big hole without a decision maker or paying out compo for a replacement.
It was said that the club were impressed with the people at Bodo Glimt during the summer and were trying to implement their model just maybe they could snare their Sporting Director and manager
Bodo Glimt is interesting. Whether anything comes of it I frankly doubt.
Hi John
I’ve thus far resisted being sarky about the SoccerBot, all I’ll say is that nobody else seems to have installed one!
The ship is indeed an unhappy one and indeed this atmosphere spreads very quickly. It doesn’t take long to get from the training ground to the supporters either.
Cheers
We got a soccer bot , the country’s got a Truss bot. .
These bots are a waste really.
No good ever seems to come of them.
First game I’ve managed to see before the queen passed and the following game (due to be televised here) was cancelled.
It wasn’t a great watch, to be sure. I don’t believe we were as far off the pace as some suggest and Watford certainly shouldn’t have been 17th. Still, improvements required quickly.
Hi Dave
These three upcoming games particularly need to see improvement.
Will we get it? Frankly I’m doubtful I’m afraid.
Cheers
Dean Smith blaming the players for the bad performances, then crediting himself for the changes is pathetic. No wonder our top players have fallen out with him.
Hi Gil
I didn’t realise some of the top players had fallen out with Smith but if you say that’s so I am not in the least bit surprised.
Cheers