It’s hard to know where to begin.
It wasn’t great against Leicester – at least not in the first half – but we put it down to their superior quality, yet actually the clues were all there in that second half against Stoke when we were thoroughly dominated but relied on some good old Championship guts to get the job done.
As it transpired, the defeat at Rotherham just before the international break was also a clue of what was to come despite almost all of us passing it off at the time as either a ‘blip’ or a ‘wake-up call’.
But blips don’t usually come in the form of three defeats in four, and wake-up calls tend – as the name suggests – to trigger a positive reaction.
August was a fine month for City – one that few of us saw coming – but having been giddied by that unexpectedly positive start, those of us whose heads then started floating off into the clouds have been brought crashing back to Earth in September.
Four league games. One win. Three defeats. Four goals scored. Ten conceded.
Quite how it’s unraveled quite so badly is a little bit of a mystery but I sincerely hope that Team Wagner can identify it and fix it because what we witnessed yesterday was excruciating and humiliating in equal measure.
The players have taken plaudits aplenty this season, and deservedly so because there have been some good displays and some great moments, but if they believe they’ve enough credits in the bank to be spared any criticism after yesterday, they are wrong.
This one stung. Big time. Yesterday evening was not a good time to be a Norwich supporter.
With no disrespect intended to Plymouth, who were excellent on the day and did all they needed to do, this was not the same as going to the Etihad or Anfield and getting tonked or even getting hammered out of sight by Tottenham at home on the final day of the season.
This was getting mullered by a team who five months ago played in the third tier. And this is when you have a defence that contains players with Premier League experience.
By no metric was any part of yesterday afternoon acceptable.
“Disgraceful” was how my dear old dad described it, and even though his ire was clearly heightened by knowing he was only a couple of hours away from hearing from a fluffed-up Ipswich-supporting neighbour, he was right.
A performance of no redeeming features; one bereft of all the qualities needed to win a football match.
A defence that had previously stood firm when the pressure moments arrived – a welcome trait after some lily-livered efforts last season – crumbled horribly when our two centre-backs were exposed to movement and pace.
While Ben Gibson and Shane Duffy are in their element when confronted with big old centre-forwards who rely on crosses, high balls, and who they can go toe-to-toe with, when confronted with the opposite of all of those things – speed, clever movement, and rotation – they were all over the place.
And that central midfield partnership of Kenny McLean and Gabriel Sara – the one that’s worked well in forming a protective shield in front of two said centre-backs – was equally ineffective against a midfield that was content to sit deep, invite City on, and then break with pace, purpose and in numbers.
If nothing else, yesterday emphasised the importance of that defensive shield when City don’t have the ball and also how limited Gibson and Duffy are when asked to defend one-on-one.
Ironically, we were only without the ball thirty percent of the game but seventy percent of possession is useless if you can do little with it. And when we were still in yesterday’s game, between minutes one to 45, we did little to nothing with it.
No punch. No threat. Far too comfortable to defend against.
The void left by Josh Sargent was already significant but add to that another void where once stood the imposing figure of Ashley Barnes and we start to look horribly anaemic going forward.
Yes, Adam Idah scored twice and, hopefully, it will do wonders for his fragile confidence, but by then it was well and truly game over. Both were consolations, nothing more.
For his part, Hwang Ui-jo looked like someone who is still getting used to the pace and intensity of English football. Because he is. Early days of course, but the signs are that it’s a deal that’s going to benefit Nottingham Forest more than Norwich City.
If we must go scraping around for some positives, I guess we didn’t lose the second half and the substitutes made things marginally better.
Adam Forshaw proved himself to be adept at keeping the ball and keeping it moving in that deep-lying role while his presence allowed Sara to operate closer to Idah, which had a modicum of success … but I’m straw clutching.
Anything good that happened in yesterday’s second half comes with a massive caveat – namely that the game was already over.
Quite where the hell we go from here other than to Fulham on Wednesday night I’m not sure. The lack of squad depth all of a sudden looks to be a massive issue, and the fact that nine of yesterday’s starting XI were playing their third game in a week tells a little story of its own.
From being in a good place we all of a sudden find ourselves in a rotten one and all those feelings of gloom and helplessness of last season have started to resurface.
For two seasons, we had nothing to cheer about. It was grim and many of us found it difficult to engage with a club that had, almost forever, been a massive part of our lives.
But this season felt different. The hunger returned. So too did the joy.
And while yesterday may not have returned us in one fell swoop to that dark place, that horrible knot in the stomach when you wake up on a Sunday morning and realise it wasn’t all a bad dream is back.
It feels like, out of nowhere, we’ve arrived at another crossroads.
Sorry for sounding repetitive but as long as the dead hand of Delia remains in charge of this club games like yesterday and seasons like the last one will always be part of the staple diet at NR1.
We’ve gone from ambition with prudence to self funding to retirement home. Last week I think it was AlexB who said we’ve wasted 26 years and he was spot on.
The reason for yesterday is a £60 million black hole despite selling our best young players and we are now in bargain basement with numerous free transfers. Parachute payments end this year and heaven knows what happens after that.
You get ought for nought in this life and yesterday was the proof.
We don’t even know if we are in the middle of a takeover or if we’ve received a loan for working capital secured by a share issue.
I was reluctant to renew this year but did so thinking we’d have new owners. To quote The Who “ I wont get fooled again”.
We are, as you say John, in a black hole financially and I’m not sure we have a way out of it. I have heard the saying that you get ought for naught many times, however, how much did we spend on Raschica and Tzolis?
I would challenge anyone to claim they were worth it. The truth is, trying to find the right players is a minefield and the Pukkis of this world do not come along often. I am not defending the current situation or excusing yesterdays result in way, We can only hope that this performance is a one off and not a sign of things to come.
Lastly, whatever we think of them, Idah and Hwang need to be on the bench Wednesday and U23 players used for the cup game – that quite frankly matters not one jot.
couldn’t have put it better John ,as long as Delia is around ,the club is toxic !
Somebody told me that yesterday a club with 2 years in the Premier League out of the last 5 were up against one who played the same period in leagues 1 and 2. Apparently you get lots of money for being in the Prem, not so much in 1 and 2…..but seeing yesterday’s performance it obviously doesn’t make a difference.
O T B C
I’ve posted here before that if we don’t get promoted, potential administration looms. However, the protracted takeover – or whatever it is – muddies the waters some what. What MA be in batter position if that happens or not?
We’ve always got out of jail by selling a players or getting promoted to stop things hitting the fan, but we’ve not got much left with 50k buys and free transfers.
The notion of having owners that do not invest or attract investment is beyond ridiculous, but somehow this has gone on for 26 years largely unchallenged.
When it all does come crashing down, we’ll all look at other and say ‘Why didn’t we do anything about it?’
Beyond ridiculous is right. Doesn’t stop some fools telling us that it’s so virtuous and wonderful.
Couldn’t agree more. Sad thing is the club have spent so much on people in PR or whatever it’s called, to tell us (and make lots of videos) about how great it is under Delia. I feel quite sorry for Wagner. What other team could flourish when every transfer window we sell big and buy small. Our best player injured (Josh) and the fragile “everyone is happy and united again” myth is exposed.
Meanwhile we get taught a lesson by Plymouth – and good for them by the way – with zero budget or parachute payments, they manage to beat us easily.
Also why is Webber still here and why can’t Delia and co cope without him?
Well the starting line up didnt help,Rowe and Fashnact were both poor v Leicester yet Wagner decided to give them another start
after Placheta looked lively midweek.Then both ageing CB’s were asked to start again after playing midweek with Barth again on the bench,surely resting one would have been a better choice.Hwang starting was another weird decision,especially away from home,he looks lost and theres a reason Forest never played him!I said after the Rotherham defeat have the wheels fallen off,well yes they have and they’re rolling down the hill at full speed!The blames laid at the geriatric owners door for hanging on to their plaything too long,for keeping the mountain climber on and not having the balls to sack Wagner after last season’s abysmal run of form.
Absolutely! Nine of the eleven starters yesterday have been heavily involved in every game this season and it showed. Yesterday was an ideal opportunity to play Batth, Forshaw, Plachetta& Hernandez from the start to freshen things up. Plymouth did exactly that and reaped the rewards. Very naive from Wagner who now needs to play the U23/21s v Fulham and rotate his main 11 for Brum to get back on track.
The defeat was down to awful defending – nothing else. We had the greater share of possession and scored two goals. If Sargent or Barnes had scored those goals we wouldn’t be writing then off as a consolation or even “easy” as described by the pinkun reporter.
The game has come too soon after the Leicester game particularly for Duffy whohas played every game this season plus an international. I think it was wrong to sub. Rowe so early in the Leicester game, playing him as a left winger doesn’t suit him, we only have one natural left winger.
It’s the same as last season for Wagner, good start and then injuries disrupt the team. Negativity amongst the fans isn’t going to help we have some good players to come back or step up from the U21s.
Sorry Gil, but when you go 5-0 down any goal is a consolation, because at 5-0, the team you are playing goes into relax mode.
Pro footballers in relax mode? It doesn’t sit well with some people that Idah scored and Placheta played well because they are the same people who didn’t want them at the club this season
Yes was Norwich went 6-0 up in the first half , against Reading it was like a training session in the second half
That’s game management
Bad defending is a consequence of not being able to afford players of championship standard.
So you are saying that Plymouth have been able to afford bringing in defenders of championship standard?
Bad defending is a result of player quality, physical condition, tactics, motivation, opposition tactics, opposition players etc etc.
There are a ton of reasons for the performance but I think a part of it is that coaches have reacted to our tactics earlier in the season and for whatever reason Wagner hasn’t reacted
Please can you name the u21 players who could make a difference.
Welch, Aboh and Lima amongst others
Were they in the team that lost to Everton u21’s the other night?Not pulling up many trees are they,makes you wonder if our coaches are good enough.
You can tell that from the result?
Also in the team that beat ChelseaU21s.
Everton commentary team was particularly impressed with Welch
Many trees pulled.
I watched the under 21 game on Everton TV. A lively second half and although Lima showed some sublime skills, Welch was rampant down the right, Brooke drove forwards from midfield and Aboh was lively if rather wayward in his finishing I’m not sure if any of these boys are the answer right now.
Good post. You can’t legislate for injuries. Any team would struggle without their two best strikers, and maybe this is Adam Idah’s big chance. I would recommend having a look at the under 21’s game at Everton. We lost,but it was a great game and a good performance overall. There are some jewels in that team, and it wont be long before they are making it in the first team. Maybe not this season, but the long-term future of NCFC is in good hands. https://www.evertonfc.com/news/3694698/harrison-features-in-under-21s-victory
Gil
The second goal a penalty was never one it should have been a free kick the foul happened outside the area and it wasn’t preventing a goal scoring opportunity the Ref felt sorry for us.
It was a well taken penalty.. Idah is probably our best taker since Adams
It still wasn’t a penalty in the first place no matter how well it was taken
Please forgive my positivity, perhaps some wrong decisions against us but the ref didn’t kick it in the net for us.
Hi Gil
I didn’t say it wasn’t a well taken penalty and yes it was but the game was overly a long way and a poor decision doesn’t make it any better.
Positivity I can see in your comments but I would like to see more in game results.
Apart from that senseless Penenka, Wesley wasn’t too bad, and neither was Holty.. None of them were all-round footballers though if we consider having two feet, heading the ball and all-round general defending – where Idah is clearly the best.!
Hi Gary, have the wheels fallen off finally?
I wasn’t expecting the start Norwich had, but indeed was impressed with everything you pointed out in your column for the games in August.
I did question how the team would react to a loss and whether the cracks from last year would start to appear? Clearly the issues still remain in the manner they capitulated to Plymouth.
I agree with all statements above regarding the owners – unwanted and outstayed their welcome!
I still cannot believe we have coaches at the club who appear to be clueless on how to train defenders? This being for the last 5 years at least.
How Ben Gibson is still at the club is beyond me? Furthermore one of the highest wage earners on 40k a week beggers belief?
I said last season things have got to get a whole lot worse before we see any serious change!
As for Ipswich, they will be in the playoffs make no mistake. New owners who grasp how to run a club, stadium capacity increase and a young hungry manager who has made a team without a pot to P**s in.
Hopefully that pressure of Ipswich being above us will finally convince the happy clappers the old guard needs to be cleared out?
Well Said Gregg ,although as the happy clappers have previously mentioned they would rather Norwich be in Div 2 or below rather than see new owners with money and ambition !
It reminds of when Delia said she would have Worthington as manager, ‘even if we were in the Conference’.
Money and ambition is a boring cliche, for every team that has a rich owner come in and turn the club around there are 2 others that are in exactly the same place and 2 more that have gone backwards.
Forget the money and ambition, give me an owner who genuinely cares about the club and the community it exists in.
Football can be an ego narcotic, expecting the team to win all the time, claiming lack of ambition if they don’t. It’s much harder and more valuable to stay true to the value of a community good over time.
oh dear ,
If Delia cares about the club so much why is she happy to let Webber remain? He who has lambasted her precious fans on more than one occasion. But that’s okay because she knows what she’s doing.
Why is Mr Attanasio being made to serve an apprenticeship while she and her husband dither about selling the club.
She isn’t going to let go. It’s fine for her to sack the manager for failing but can we at least see her for what she is. A majority shareholder who can’t invest yet expects every employee at the club to get us promoted.
So if she sacks Wagner, what then? Another change of players and tactics and giving them time to gel. Another season gone. She needs to sell up and go. Only then can we all move on. Hopefully to better things.
Excellent comment Jane. I fear Wagner is being groomed as the next scapegoat, in the true sense of the word. Whereby he will pay for the sins of others higher up the food chain.
To accrue upwards of 40 million pounds and lose some mighty high earners as well only to spend a couple of million pounds in return shows exactly where the problems lie at Carrow Road, and it would take a manager far more gutted than Wagner to flourish under such circumstances
A sledgehammer couldn’t convince some of the drooling sycophants that loosely follow our club of that.
If we have to wait for another 3 years while Delia teaches Attanasio the offside rule before we get change at the top we are in hot water.
Hi Gary
Thanks JohnF for the mention.
Two players out with long term injuries, so are we a team that only relies on winning when Sargent and Barnes are fit? If so, that’s a sad reflection on our recruitment.
Delia, in her cooking series, stated do keep things past their sell by date. Again, 26 years out of date. The Happy Clapper Brigade will still back her to own the club and are like Manfred Mann – ‘Blinded by the Light’ – but the second his line “revved up like a deuce” just isn’t City at the moment. we aren’t revved up … we’re just ticking over waiting for a preordained AGM that will just continue along the same path of stagnation.
My wife said yesterday maybe it’s time to call Warnock in jest, but Wagner had no idea how to turn it around yesterday. Rotherham showed the other teams in this league how to stop City in their tracks. With or without Sargent and Barnes we are too predictable.
Yesterday was down to many poor decisions but this is the biggest.
Keeping Webber as Sporting Director once he resigned and still in place planning a January window – when he will be gone? A couple of months later and then someone new will have to sort out the mess.
We were all been pleased with the recruitment in the last window but – and a big but – was that age and experience is great and those coming in knows it’s their last chance saloon for a possible promotion and all that it brings – glory and bonuses.
The downside for those type of signings is they are more injury prone, have longer recovery times, not only for injuries but between games, as shown this week.
The club will now go into a hunkered down mode, blaming anyone and everyone but themselves, but this was an accident waiting to happen after 26 years of mediocre ambitions and self-funding.
We now have a 3-year wait to see how a data driven ownership will turn the club fortunes around – a continuous stagnation with no clear leadership, so who will make the decisions? Or is it a raise of hands with a nephew possibly holding the power to swing it in his aunty’s favor.
Ipswich seem to be taking the results high ground and at this moment in time we are clinging to their coattails in a desperate attempt to stay in the promotion race.
A good write, well down considering the horror show you had to write about. I looked back to my comments on the Rotherham game, where I said it was like watching last season over again. a couple of good games and dive downwards. Another coincidence is the fact that in a couple of early games of Wagner’s last season produced goals. 4 at Preston. and 4 at Coventry. .We have had those repeated this season at Southamption and Huddersfield. Now, plummeting to new depths again, copying what we experienced last season with a devastating defeat at Middlesbrough.
Personally I was always a little dubious of Wagner’s appointment, after his record in his most recents appointments. but thought it was hard hard to say that out too loud when he had not really started in the job, looking back now I feel my concerns were not far off.
There doesn’t appear to be an alternative in his locker, his style is sussed out, by two of the lower sides of the league, (no disrespect intended, in fact credit to them both)
I am not advocating the sack, that would be crazy perhaps !, he should be given a few more games to see if he can change the fortunes, it’s his squad or so we are lead to believe. Or is playing the game of being happy with his lot ? As an old pals act for the man holding the empty purse.
This is our lot I am afraid, little will change unless the coaching improves, History repeating itself over the last 26 years
HOHOHO!
Did Plymouth have a surprise for the Canaries boys and girls!
I’m sure we’ll get over it though.
OTBC !
Hi Kev
I could have coped if your instinct had beaten mine 1-0 but 6-2 is not something I can easily get over!
We got over losing 7-1 to Colchester a few seasons ago, we’ll get over this … we lost 10-2 to Swindon in 1908 … do you hear many people complaining?
How about the hammering by Blackburn the season they won the title or the couple of 6’s scored by Fulham or more recent that 1908 🤣🤣🤣
Re; Fulham……and that’s before we rock up on Wednesday!
O T B C
I don’t know any people who were at the Swindon game, though Delia might. Or was she watching Ipswich or QPR 🙂
I STILL maintain that was never a penalty in 1908 and isn’t one now, you cad sir! :
Okay I know the rules have changed a bit but, even so -)
It WAS a penalty Martin, nailed on!
In those days you couldn’t receive the ball in your penalty area, stop, ‘flash’ at the Swindon fans, yell ‘Gordon of Khartoum was my father’ and not get done for a penalty!
Lucky the defender wasn’t shown a red card too!
It needed a bye bye to Gunny to get over Colchester Kev. Months too late.
Please don’t mention the Swindon 2-10 defeat Kev. It still haunts my mate Marty, he broke his quill pen in a rage writing a very irate letter to the EDP of the day, a similar centre half pairing as Saturday’s of a Mr A.Tugboat and a Mr W. Rootedtothespot did for us in a terrible defensive display.
Marty drowned his sorrows with Absinthe, the Budweiser of the day.
Quill pens Tim … love it … Absinthe too! Perhaps that’s what the boys had been drinking Friday night!
Normal service has been well and truly restored. It was fun while it lasted, and yes, it did fool me into thinking something was stirring.
The paper thin squad is simply not equipped to cope with championship football. Since Sargent hobbled out at Huddersfield we’ve been wobbling and yesterday the dam broke.
Quite frankly a 6 goal beating at Plymouth is disgusting. It’s not the losing which ranges the most, it’s the manner and the magnitude of the defeat. Putrid, disgraceful and an insult
The lack of professionalism at the club defies belief. The fish rots from its head and the rot had reached the pitch.
All the good will and positive points that still existed after Wednesdays defeat have been pissed down the drain in one afternoon. It’s hard to look forward to next week’s game now, and god help them all if they display the same lack of care fpr the club and sloppy attitude that was shown yesterday.
Sickening.
I afraid it’s back to type after promising start like last season and now we looking downwards possible no win in next six wouldn’t surprise me . I saw this coming after Rotherham a game which we were just as pathetic performance were lucky to beat stoke in the end but at least defended better . 3 defeats in 4 no bounce now common thread for us last two years not expecting much now with no decent strikers available .
Experienced backline in panic mode.
Brainless tactics, with midfield constantly caught out by swift counter-attacks.
Hwang the next Billy Gilmour.
Tons of possession, but scarcely bothered opposition goalkeeper.
Injury excuses (don’t other clubs have this problem too?)
It all sounds eerily like a repetition of the last days of the Farke regime.
Please, please prove me wrong, City.
Funny how Delia et al never get a mention when we win, but the usual suspects are out as soon as them hav get a beatin. For me little has changed, we had a good start, Sargeant improved, Rowe developing, and some experience with Barnes and Duffy etc. With injuries the squad is relatively ordinary, and overall the object this season is to try and finish top 8; and bring back a positive ethos rather than chasing the Golden Fleece. Well done Argyle, and good luck for rest of the season.
Funny? It’s hilarious. The whole of norfolk is practically pissing itself.
Take the good and bad.
Over the Years the owners have had a lot if good press from the club winning but the Happy Clapper Brigade don’t like them getting the blame when things go wrong.
Well said.
It’s actually a bit tiresome now.
Yes. it was a bad day yesterday, a very bad one actually, but the hysteria that everyone should be immediately removed from post is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
We’ve been in The Champ long enough now to know that these types of results can happen. We have had a decent start, Top 8 after 8 is probably better than most of us thought, people need to calm down a bit.
Properly be 16th or worse after 16 worth a fiver at the bookies Derek.
When Delia finally exits the club , could she also take the happy clappers with her ! To be fair and kinder to them they would be much happier in a regional league
Hi Gary
Away on Wednesday to Fulham unless the team puts up a fighting spirit then things could get noise against the the Brummies at Carrow Rd next Saturday.
The bookies will soon have a list on who’s inline to replace Wagner
Warnock
Parker
Robins
Warner
Will be top but then maybe the Plymouth boss might come into the frame
This feels like it is becoming a bit of a trend for Mr Wagner, a promising start last season petered out, I think the same was true for his last two at Young Boys and Schalke?
Anyway, let’s see how Preston and Ipswich are sitting in early December, Championship tends to be a bit deceptive early on.
I’m not too sure about Preston, but, much as it hurts to say, I think 1p5wich will remain there or thereabouts throughout the season.
Young, hungry manager, with an excellent mix of youth and experience in the team…
Where have our scouting team been while they (and Plymouth!!) have been picking up decent players for as little as 1m a time??
O T B C
If Sargent’s injury had come about a week later, I would have had a lot of sympathy for those responsible for running our club. He was the main reason for our excellent start to the season. Not only did he, at last, provide us with a striker capable of converting crosses into the box, he also chased and harried defenders and provided our first line of defence, high up the field. HIs intelligent running and positional play dragged defenders out of position and created space for the likes of Rowe and Sara to take advantage of and produce goal scoring opportunities.
However, the timing of Sargents injury left us with 6 days of the transfer window remaining in order to find a replacement. That we did not appear to make more than a token effort to do so is a total disgrace and an abdication of duty on behalf of Stuart Webber. Not that it should have come as any great surprise. How many employees 8 month into a 12 month notice period would continue to give 100% to their employers?
Delia and co must also shoulder a lot of the blame for allowing Webber to remain in his position. A new Sporting Director only a few months in the job, genuinely wanting success for the club and himself, would never have allowed the transfer window to slam shut with such lightweight options in such a critical area.
Some will say that the absence of Sargent does not explain why the performances of the rest of the team has dropped off a cliff. However, the reality is that Sargent’s injury and the lack of intent by the club to sign a like for like replacement has affected the confidence, motivation and morale of the whole team. The mindset changed from playing in a team that were averaging over 3 goals a game to playing in a team with very little up front.
I feel sorry for David Wagner. Like Daniel Farke, he has been left exposed by lack of support from the club in the transfer department and have no doubt, he will face the same undeserved fate as his fellow countryman over the coming weeks. Another scapegoat in an attempt to cover for the failings of our Board and Sporting Director.
Good post, Budgie.
As you’ll probably guess, I find it hard to disagree with most of that.